Monday, 24 June 2013
Doris Winterbottom video on noise and dust pollution in Mossley
This video which was recorded today is one of a number of videos which can be found on-line regarding residents complaints over a wood recycling plant in Mossley. The BBC broadcast a programme about the issue earlier this year but the wood recycling firm concerned claimed parts of the broadcast was unfair and that they had been proven to have done nothing wrong.
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80 comments:
Marvellous. What law or persons in authority have allowed such desecration of our green and pleasant land? Know nothing morons and the morons who elect them. Always be mindful when buying property of what the surrounding landscape may at some future point be turned into.
Nimby nonsense. Most people have more important things to worry about at that time of day.
Perhaps Doris should get off her backside and do something productive.
If it wasn't for the industrial revolution towns like Mossley would never of been built. There has always been industrial operations going on along the river and canal. Long before anyone living there today was born.
Plevins is a local business employing mostly local people. We should be proud of that.
Yes, it appears it is moaning for moaning's sake just like the other particulate moaner Hall.
Presumably, all those sneering do themselves live right beside something similar. Though in my experience, it's for some bugger else to have to put up with while they enjoy the peace and quiet of some tranquil secluded back street.
And I wonder how many of those sneering would turn back the clock and have their families live and work in early 19th century working class mill / mine conditions. The industrial revolution was the greedy capitalist's wet dream that pissed all over the working class and should have prompted a very different revolution. Generally, we do tend to recognise now that human progress should be dealt with in a slightly manner.
And I'll also point out that in the 21st century people work a variety of hours, including nights, which means that many have legitimate reasons to be idle at certain times of day, including the disabled and retired. The capacity for people to talk out of their rear ends never ceases to amaze me.
No Nimbys in my backyard said...
Yes, it appears it is moaning for moaning's sake just like the other particulate moaner Hall.
This originates from a Tameside Labour member.
Those that agree with abusing kids by poisoning there lungs.
Abuse kids and vote Labour
at the next election because thats the reality from Labour totally dense crap heads.
J.Hall
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
More than 4,000 officers disciplined for criminal behaviour in five years... including an inspector sacked for SHOPLIFTING.
And these are only the one`s who were found out.
Excuse me officer I know its 3-Oam but should you be wearing that 50 inch
plasma screen TV on your back with straps on ?
Litupbluelamp.
@25/06/2013 11:42 Watch out that Paul Wilson does not print your comment off here and claim it's incitement.
Someone on here used the name Kuntz, the name of a German footballer.
And Paul Wilson tried to tell a Judge that it was incitement against Germans.
It's an eye opener to understand that a new charter solicitor can troll this blog every day and go through every post on here.
Looking for anything he thinks is incitement.
Mr Paul Wilson actually does this, he put together a comprehensive document, hundreds of posts printed off from this blog. And said here you are Judge it's all incitement.
You should have been there to hear what the Judge thought of Wilson pathetic attempt of a frame up, the papers did not report what the Judge said.
Mr Hall did you know that your posts were included in Paul Wilson's court document?
Paul Wilson claimed that a post giving advice on dealing with the police was also incitement.
Wilson had the chance to question the person responsible for that post in court, but decided to leave it.
Wilson is trying to frame someone using posts he does not like.
He failed totally last year, but that does not mean he won't try again. But it's desperate stuff from Wilson and new charter housing.
She wants to try listening to this everyday
Mr Hall did you know that your posts were included in Paul Wilson's court document?
Paul Wilson claimed that a post giving advice on dealing with the police was also incitement.
..........................
Perhaps the person you name would like to read the extremely large number of extremely interesting and amazing pages of statements made by police officers which resulted from the evidence given by Ashton Police Officers who pleaded guilty to my serious Police complaint which became a PCC and GMP formal investigation and ended up in a formal hearing where officer`s guilty pleas were
forthcoming to my serious complaint.
This large file I received from the PCC is something this Charter person needs to reflect on should he mention my name whatsoever,wherever,and for any foolish intent where he decides to pursue his importance.
Should I ever release this information the content would become a source for absolute total amazement.
Please do not mess with me those who seek to limit democracy,openness,probity,
and accountability simply because I am not a mug or a pawn in this Charter House person objectives.
For interest the files concerned are triplicated and in safe hands
John Hall
Interesting perhaps that my family tree and direct blood line indicates 4 Police Officers all close relatives
which include a Chief Detective Inspector at Scotland Yard as it was, down to Sergeant in Manchester.
I am proud of each one for their conduct.
J.Hall
Paul Wilson is nutty as a fruit cake. He is also a very evil man responsible for wrongful evictions on his record working for new charter housing.
Just one wrongful eviction should bring shame on him.
You know Mr Wilson, the lady from Ashton?
What a mess you left her in wicked.
You can't persecute someone forever with-out the general public not getting a sense of what is going on.
They may have been greedy capitalists but they made this a wealthy nation which we have benefited massively from as well as other nations.
If people work nights or anti social hours that's not the fault for a business that needs to operate in normal hours of business. And You can't stop the planet for disabled people as much as I respect their position can be difficult.
To complain about noise at 11am coming from an industrial area is in my opinion pathetic.
AS for living near such places myself yes I do. Noise and dirty dusty pollution is a constant problem on my doorstep.
Only complaint I have is the chavs that have to have music banging out from their cars at the lights no matter what time of day or night.
Live and let live. If Doris has a problem with pollution perhaps her argument should be with people who regulate industry and not with one individual company. Why should one company have to comply with her when others don't. Its not fair.
You're not the spokesman or owner of that recycling plant by any chance are you? You certainly sound like you are, and if so it's a fair bet you haven't chosen to set your family up anywhere which might suffer similar environmental nuisance.
Also, it wasn't the greedy capitalists who made this country wealthy. It was the inventors, the innovators and the ordinary man woman and child who worked themselves into an early grave for their betters. Unlike you, I don't credit so-called entrepreneurs whose only 'skill' is taking advanatage of such progress by shifting money about from one place to another to get rich off someone else's back. Individual profit was what the industrial revolution was primarily about, not the welfare of the race.
Technology and the economy should exist to serve the needs of the people, not vice versa. I very much doubt that any policy which would seek to segregate sensibly residential districts and industrial units would put us back in the stone age. A fine scenic village like Mossley is first and foremost residential not industrial, unless that is you can point out the great many factories and chimneys across the area. Closer to the centre of Stalybridge fair enough, but surrounding green belt needs protection. If other people in other areas have to live (unfortunately) nearer to such industrialised estates, then those issues need to be resolved in each town. The answer certainly is not to wreck the rest of our landscape in the name of equality of suffering. I do presume you would advocate a similar plant in the middle of the Lake District or right beside Stonehenge....
Andrew Gwynne: The National Audit Office projects that there is a
240,000 shortfall of primary school places across England, and in fact
there are now bulges in classes across Tameside and Stockport, the two
local authorities covering my constituency.
The penny never drops with this nutter,its you and your Labour Party who allowed the immigrants to arrive in droves so you could get more Labour votes,so don`t squeal like a pig when the primary schools are full,besides which we English do not breed as fast as immigrants but of course you already know that.
As an MP you certainly lack common sense and even less observational abilities.
Seeing your a Labour front spokesperson on Health have you ever sat in the Manchester Royal Hospital after 6-0pm any night because its an immigrants
piccadilly circus because their attitude is, and I have heard it often,the doctors are shut so the A&E is our first call. Our enlarged family who like to form a camel type convoy so all our family can fill up
all the seats in A&E,and its free for all our folk,yipee, we luv uk
Gwynne has always been p------ in the wind because his brain is dormant.
Its about time you made sure how Tameside Hospital operates because without doubt YOU will need their services.
http://www.drfosterhealth.co.uk/hospital-guide/hospital/nhs/Tameside-General-Hospital-1087.aspx
I think TC posters run off in many direction on this blog like headless chickens and do not keep an eye on something they will need.
If you read the above survey surveys you will find they offer private healthcare services,now thats a winner with the affluent members of society,and their medics handing out their fat bills.
Get a grip on your hospital
and do not become a lousy statistic.
Please report the BBC to new charter housing and the police for hatred against the Germans.
@17:54
You presume a lot about me it seem. 90% of which is untrue.
No I have no connections with the company.
I should point out that Mossley no longer has as many mills as it used to have they have been demolished. It has had industry along the canal long before anyone alive today was born.
I am in favour of protecting greenbelt and also a great lover of the Lake District.
I never said the industrial revolution gave a damn about the welfare of ordinary people. But it did pave the way to making this a wealthy nation. Where do you think the inventors got investment for their creations?
... also in what industry were their creations applied?
...Mossley is largely a commuter town these days contributing to the congestion on my doorstep so they can drive their ton of gas guzzling scrap metal past my home to get to work. Whilst pumping out pollution from their exhausts.
If I lived in Mossley I would be glad of a company provides work I could walk to as i do for my job. Even better that its a company that contributes to the local economy by taking a manufacturing byproduct and make it into something reusable.
.....................................
Tameside has become a rubbish dump, take a look around the place and open your eyes. You can't miss seeing it all.
The A and E crisis is CAUSED by immigration, both legal and illegal.
In the former there has been a massive surge in numbers. In the latter there has been a massive surge in numbers AND you can't register with a GP, so A AND E is your only option.
Who caused it? The last dirty traitorous Labour government DELIBERATELY.
I seem to recall a firm in Hyde called 'Smiths' (or something or other) which (until about 10-15 years ago) used to pollute the whole town from time to time over a 2-3 mile radius with a stomach churning smell.
Believe it or not, certain arrogant individuals seemed to think that the jobs of about 50 men justified the rest of the town of many tens of 1000s having to put up with this assault on their senses and living environment.
Mossley may not have quite the same number of people, but it would come as no surprise if a similar persons were at it again....
Gwynne MP announces to the Commons:
I shall be in Victoria park in Denton on Saturday to celebrate Armed Forces day.
He would run a mile if he had to fire a 303 or sten because he doesn't like anybody taking the much needed pot shots at him,and simply hides.
Mosque in Redditch daubed with 'racist' graffiti.
Tragic, and after the decades long efforts of Muslims to really go out of their way to integrate into British society this is the thanks they get.
@26/06/2013 13:24 but way? they are not fighting for freedom and Britain.
That certain company in Hyde most likely deserved to be shutdown.
So far I haven't seen any evidence that Plevins is doing anything harmful to the environment. If it is then it is legally permitted. If there is really as problem with what they are doing to the environment then its regulations that need to be toughened.
Destruction of natural habitat is something I would strongly oppose. Its easy to use the excuse that one company in Hyde. Its just not fair to paint Plenvins with the same brush.
At any rate, I'm not about to believe the sanctimonious Plevin's spokesperson on here who dismisses complaints on the basis of idleness and fussiness. The said individual who works 18 hours a day six days a week and returns homes to a smog enveloped chav stadium can keep his moralising to himself.
My dad works at Plevins and he says it is the best place in the world to work. Plevins cares for the environment and its neighbours. Please look at the situation rationally before jumping to decisions. Many families rely on Plevins for work.
http://www.police.uk/crime/?q=Denton%20M34%203QW,%20UK
Not sure whether everyone is aware of crime in your area.
Put Post Code in and see what the scum are doing.
The Office for National Statistics has released the latest population figure.
Between June 2011 and June 2012 the population of England grew by 400,000, or a city the size of Cardiff.
729,400 babies were born (officially), the highest birthrate for 40 years.
Despite 250,000 internal migrants (i.e virtually all British) leaving London its population actually ROSE by 100,000.
These latest horrendous figures (don't forget the REAL figures will be far worse) come in the face of the coalition government's supposed campaign to limit immigration into what is virtually the most densely populated country in the world. Two things are clear: 1) Immigration and Overpopulation are the two issues that will dominate Britain in the coming years. 2) The government has lost control of the situation and has neither the will, ability or courage to address the issue in any meaningful way. This needs dealing with NOW.
If you're wondering about the A and E crisis, the destruction of our countryside, the massive congestion on our roads, the quarter of a million extra primary school places required, wonder no longer. Instead wake up and wake up everyone you know because very soon it will be too late.
@
"
At any rate, I'm not about to believe the sanctimonious Plevin's spokesperson on here who dismisses complaints on the basis of idleness and fussiness. The said individual who works 18 hours a day six days a week and returns homes to a smog enveloped chav stadium can keep his moralising to himself.
"
Thats what the debate is supposed to be about, Unlike most people on here I am giving my opinion on the topic. If you don't like it sling your hook.
I strongly believe that its a minority of nimby folk in mossley plain and simple.
I have friends line in Mossley and don't see them kicking up no fuss over it.
All you come up with is random rants about nothing to do with the company involved. And wild accusations about myself who you do not know anything about.
Truth be known the lady complaining in the video doen't like the fact see can see a little bit of scrap timber piled up between that tiny gap in the trees.
So she has decided to go on a crusade to any give the company a bad reputation on nation media who a number of local families rely on for employment that so far as anyone can see have done nothing wrong.
The fact it creates a bit of dust makes me laugh at the people complaining.
Daily Mail (Thursday)
Budge up! Population of England and Wales swells by 400,000 in a YEAR
Figures released today by the Office for National Statistics show population growth has not slowed down after the years of large-scale immigration.
...........................
How can it be expected to slow down with the more rapid increase of children born to immigrants and illegal immigrants.
Those in power simply continue to throw spurious comments out which under any reasonable scrutiny do not go far enough to expose the truth.
Roy West to be sent to the gallows today. It's your duty to show the people of Tameside, and beyond why this man is being dragged through the court once again.
It's not a wild accusation to say you speak on here like a spokesman for Plev's - it's a fact.
As for your supposed claims about knowing Mossley folk who do the decent thing and keep their mouths shut, well their kind are always in abundance everywhere too. They're the same live & let live yellow bellies who (generally) will put up with any old crap being sent their way, including the chav raucous you moan about.
It goes without saying that a few arrogant so&sos would think the entire town should put up with such crap for the sake of a minority's jobs, many of whom probably don't even live in the town, including the smug owners.
It's my observation that those who wag the holier than thou finger at those complaining about nuisance from others tend to do so from an unaffected vantage point. If all those who work at that plant (especially the well endowed owners) and the self righteous upstart on here can show us all that they themselves reside right beside a similar nuisance, then their voices might carry some weight. But until they put their cards on the table, I think the rest will continue to believe they have the same right as eveyone else to live in peace.
Perhaps I should stick some ediface right beside your back garden, belching smoke and dust and creating industrial noise nuisance round the clock. After all, should you come knocking to complain I'll point out those couple of helpers being paid a little wage to help me out. Somehow, I'm inclined to think that would be different....
I speak as a spokesperson for local businesses that create jobs for local people and pay taxes here.
All evidence points to Plevins does not pollute Mossley. The tests carried out in areas of complaint show that infact Mossley as no more pollution than would be expected in town that has expected traffic pollution.
Your allegations are completely without factual argument. Grow up and have a proper debate to tosswit.
The people complaining about the plant have already had legal action taken successfully against them because of their accusations.
One thing I would note in the video is she says its been raining. Well can't see dust traveling far in that case.
Perhaps its because its the smell of pine and not rosewood thats not to taste. Nimbyism through and through.
What scientific experiment has these people come up with to proove they are the cause of any problem? I have yet to hear it.
Let's have a new topic TC, the importance and significance of this one has been stretched well beyond its limits.
>>>Dear Simon,
Thank you for contacting Mossley Environmental Action Group.
I have enclosed some pictures for you which will help set the scene here in Mossley where residents live alongside Plevins waste wood recyclers. Plevins moved to Mossley in 1995 from Hyde, also in Tameside, after complaints of dust and noise. This was followed by 16 years of similar complaints up to and including today. The local authority monitored dust and noise in the processing yard until 2008, when the EA took over. Personally I have complained for coming up to four years now and the lack of enforcement by the EA to control the dust and noise has resulted in me suffering from depression and the virtual loss of my business due to mental health issues. I am not alone in this situation amongst nearby residents, several of us have been badly let down and driven to the brink of despair... The dust has been a continued nuisance as well as a constant worry since it was brought to our attention 12 months ago that wood dust is a Group 1 human carcinogen since 1995. In our opinion, the EA have failed in their duty of care to protect me and my community from potential harm. The wood yard has only one water jet and a mist system over the hopper, which is rarely used, and this is to mitigate the dust from up to 2000 tonnes spreading some 150 metres the length and breadth of the wood yard. An EA dust report from 2010 states that the dust contained brick dust, metal shavings, glass fragments, paint flakes ,textile fibres and white amorphous UNIDENTIFIED flakes.... which remains of concern to us. Our personal experiences have resulted in us having little faith in the EA as a governing body, they use a UK guidance level of 200mg/m2 for dust as a nuisance, which is taken from a 1983 document from the British Coal board relating to dusty ports.... it has also taken them four years to force Plevins to install a noise barrier some 102m x 6m to offset the noise, only to discover it isn’t working !!
I hope this information has been of help to you, please don’t hesitate to contact me, we have many pictures, testimonials and video footage if you need anything more.
With best wishes,
Donna Liley
Secretary
Mossley Environmental Action Group<<<<
Somehow, I'm more inclined to believe the sincere words of this lady than the arrogant pig posting here probably from the comfort of some property not likewise affected.
After the 2015 general elction there is going to be a £320 tax rise for every family in Britain to fill a £6 billion blackhole. This is despite the previous and ongoing spending cuts.
There must however be plenty of money as we are propping up a constant stream of the world's detritus, housing, feeding, clothing and giving them free unlimited healthcare, despite them having only just arrived and in a massive number of cases having contributed nothing. And we're STILL letting them in. the Roamaniansa nd Bulgarians will be next and there'll be plenty of money for them, including when they ship their elderly relatives in to be treated on the International Health Service.
On the home front we have hordes of welfare witches spewing out kids they have ZERO chance of supporting financially. But hey as with all the utterly corrupted modern welfare state, THE RESPONSIBLE PICK UP THE TAG FOR THE IRRESPONSIBLE.
We have read the rhetoric with tongue in cheek and have resisted commenting until reading Anonymous post at 19.20.
Can you provide evidence that we have had successful legal action taken against us?? We suggest you have no idea what you are talking about. Please put your evidence on this site for us all to see.
Furthermore to educate you and other bloggers who obviously don't understand how fine dust particles behave. They stay static in the air in warm weather called TSP - total suspended particles, and they stay suspended until either sufficient wind removes them or it RAINS. Then the rain brings down those suspended particles which then proceed to cover cars, bins, garden furniture and homes of the nearest residents. Also fine particles behave quite differently to larger particles, please look this up on Google lots of info available.
if you would like to contact us at MEAG1@hotmail.co.uk , we are happy to invite you round the next time it is very warm with lots of dust. However as wood dust is a Grade 1 carcinogen the same as Asbestos since 1995 as set by the World Health Organisation, you might want to consider bringing a face mask.
All the best.
"Can you provide evidence that we have had successful legal action taken against us??"
Don't worry, it's just the usual opinionated busybody on here who has an answer for everything, even if it has to be sourced from some neighbouring parallel universe.
Translation: 'No we can't provide evidence.'
How anyone in their right minds can consider this to be acceptable, for residents to suffer the huge amount of toxic dusts and the horrendous noise nuisance is beyond me. No one should have to endure that no matter where they live.
No company should be allowed to belch out from it's premises a group 1 carcinogen, many carcinogens in fact, as happens on a daily basis. There is no 'safe' level of exposure to a known and classified carcinogen, meaning that even the smallest amounts can cause cancer. This is also worse for babies and young children who's immune system will not yet have fully formed so leaving them more vulnerable than most. Similarly for the elderly or those already sick whose immune systems are not functioning as well as they should be.
Just to clarify for those who may doubt that wood dust is not carcinogenic and not harmful. Wood dust per se is a classified group 1 carcinogen on the same level as asbestos, c/silica, etc. Where there is wood waste 'recycling' and processing there will be copious amounts of dust, wood dust. Don't be fooled by those with vested interests. This isn't what they call 'virgin' wood that is being collected here, as you can clearly see if you look very closely at the close up shots of what is in those mountains of wood, this is old waste wood extracted from construction and demolition waste from the demolition of old buildings, as can clearly be seen on that footage, you can clearly see painted and coated wood in there and lots of wood composite board such as MDF, chipboard and so on. This is not removed. They cannot remove the contaminants, paints, preservatives, fungicides and so on from waste wood, apart from the bigger chunks of metal which are removed by magnets to a degree, the smaller ones being left behind. This means that without a doubt, as the authorities have admitted when reporting on waste and recycling of wood in general terms, that many of those old building products, those harmful building products, and the previously banned chemicals that they undoubtedly contain, are being released back in to the chain. They were banned from use for good reason because they were proven to cause cancers, skin disease, respiratory disease, kidney disease, birth defects (yes a parent being exposed to these things can affect their unborn children and those for generations to come because they can permanently damage DNA) banned from use now because they have been proven to cause harm and to be toxic carcinogenic or mutagenic. Meaning they cause cancers and other equally devastating, debilitating, disabling and often fatal diseases and harm to human health.
(..to be continued in next post..)
(..continued from previous post..)The kind of contaminants we are talking about that can be found in construction & demolition waste are: asbestos, lead, heavy metals such as copper, chromium, arsenic; fire retardant chemicals; water resistant proofing chemicals; wood and boards with a protective scratch resistant coating full of toxic chemicals including PVC's, etc; old asbestos containing composite boards that are undistinguishable from ordinary plaster board such as Asbestolux; pesticides, fungicides, biocides, preservatives of all kinds, formaldehyde, resins, glues/adhesive; CCA, crystalline silica, and the list is absolutely endless because within these few groups that I've mentioned there are also hundreds more chemicals within each group. Wood composite boards are then made from this old heavily contaminated waste wood, which is then at the end of it's usable life also sent to be 'recycled'. That wood composite board is in itself, in addition to all the contaminated waste wood, is also made from a further additional cocktail of toxic and carcinogenic chemicals and substances. It's all there on the internet for all to see should you wish to educate yourselves further. You don't have to be Einstein or even well educated to understand how harmful it will be to inhale the resultant respirable carcinogenic and toxic dust emitted from this processing of waste contaminated woods, the finer particles of which, the ones that are the most harmful, often stay suspended almost permanently in the air, it's called the Tyndall effect. You would have to be a complete fool to not understand how harmful this will be. This will be the same for anywhere that processes waste woods, especially where it is done outdoors where the toxic dust is released daily to expose residents and to contaminate their homes, their home grown produce, to expose their children, pets and live stock too.
Ask yourselves why wood composite boards such as MDF, made mostly from old waste wood extracted from construction & demolition wastes can't go to an ordinary landfill, they have to go a specialised landfill? It's not just because it costs the Council money if it is, it's because it's so toxic and therefore harmful! Before the doubters begin to whine on, officially any company allowing toxic dust/particulates and emissions to cross their boundaries, which is a breach of their permit, is officially a polluting company and anywhere where the EA are currently and consistently monitoring and testing for said pollution can only be doing so because there has proven to be at some point pollution being caused that has the potential to cause harm to the public, from wherever the source may be, for them to be testing and monitoring they have to justify why they are there at all spending public money doing what they are. If there is not a problem there at all, as this company tries to give the impression there is not, then why and for what reason are the EA monitoring and testing for at all, as they have been for some years now?
(..continued in next post..)
(continued from previous post..)That's why this group of concerned residents are making these very valid and justifiable complaints and pursuing this course of action. No one deserves to have their health and that of their children placed at risk, to have their lives affected so badly and to have their homes, that they have worked hard for all their lives to be able to afford, to be devalued by the actions of another. They have asked countless times it's clear, and very reasonably too, for the dust and noise nuisance to stop and any good honest fair minded company owner who professes to care about the community they are based in, would have stopped it as requested sooner rather than later, which the company could have done had it have wanted to. Clearly that has not happened here. I'm sure any permit given must state, as they usually do, that any dust or emissions created must not cross the boundaries, so why are the EA allowing this to continue? Makes you wonder why that doesn't it? If there is not a statutory noise nuisance then why did they have to have a noise barrier erected, only then after residents have suffered that noise nuisance for years, from very early in the morning to late at night and at weekends too, only then was it erected and even then they did not seek the relevant planning approvals initially? None of these are the actions of a concerned fair minded decent honest supposedly community minded company owner who says they care for the community that they are based in, in my opinion quite the contrary. It shouldn't be the case either that so many should suffer in such a way for the jobs of so few. Anyone hiding behind any regulations that they know to be inadequate and then to brag about doing so is cowardice in the extreme in my opinion and nothing to be proud of.
So come on you people, show some support for the residents who have had the guts to stand up and be counted and who are standing up against this for everyone's sake not just they're own and who are raising these concerns in the public's best interest!
So for God's sake you people, come on, wake up and smell the coffee or should I say the wood dust!!
As for any employees of any company that also suffer these exposures to wood dust, especially wood dust created from old waste woods, albeit for a lesser period than these residents here are, well I hope that they always wear masks and NEVER ever take this toxic and carcinogenic dust home, albeit unwittingly, on clothes, hair and skin, as it is well documented that workers do, to contaminate their homes, as it will, and to expose their loved ones and children to the toxic dusts, as those people for example did and still do who are or have been exposed to asbestos, where the result of that still is that wives and children of those workers are also now dying horrific deaths from asbestos related diseases. Ask yourselves why wood dust per se was classified in 1995, which is a process that takes many years to get to that stage and has to be fully researched and proved by many, as a Group 1 carcinogen? It was because exposure to it was proven to cause cancers. It is also linked to causing lots of other disease too. Wood composite boards and also natural wood contains crystalline silica another Group 1 Carcinogen known to cause various cancers, respiratory & skin diseases, kidney damage and is also linked very strongly to causing certain autoimmune diseases. Many people won't realise the disease they suffer from is an autoimmune disease, as there are currently 80-100 on the list to include but is not limited to: psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes type 1, multiple sclerosis, scleroderma, sarcoidosis and so on to name just a few. Google it. Learn from the lessons that the past sought to teach us all. What many people don't realise, and to be fair why should they, is that exposure to these harmful substances can sometimes have quite long 'latency' periods, which means, as is often the case with asbestos related diseases for example, is that even any symptoms won't show themselves or become apparent and noticeable for many years, often up to 40 years+ and even then they can seem quite minor such as nose bleeds, sinusitis, coughs and colds that won't go away, unexplained fatigue and pain, headaches and so on, but these can sometimes be a pre-cursor to a more serious condition, so best to get it checked out and to mention any exposure to your GP. Just because you may feel well at present despite any exposure, that you will continue to be so in the future, as sadly that's not how these things work, as many victims of asbestos exposure found out to their cost. It sadly cost them their lives, don't let an exposure to wood dust or any kind of toxic dust cost you yours.
And if you're someone who works with wood in whatever capacity and are going home covered in wood dust, then just remember next time that you hug the wife or the kids as you get home from work, that you are exposing them also to a group 1 carcinogen on the same level as asbestos and that you really may be killing them with kindness, quite literally.
"
We were left with no alternative but to instruct solicitors to ask the group to recall the comments and never to repeat them. The group was forced to recall them.
"
http://www.plevin.co.uk/news/?page=3
... if you read medial dictionaries all day you find you got a whole lot more wrong with you.
I', bored now with this pointless argument. My point has been made. Nimbys!
..It should also be noted that any particles carried in rainfall are likely to have traveled from much further away.
Far as I can see the complaints have failed to establish that Plevins is responsible and Plevins as well as independent studies seems to suggest the air quality is Mossley is probably better than what most people get.
Its a baseless attack on a business.
..and just for the record. If you want to campain for tougher regulations on industrial pollution fantastic. I am with you all the way. I expect Plevins will be happy to comply also.
/rant over
On another point about debating in general in a textual format. It doesn't help to have a debate when you flood the conversation with insanely long paragraphs that are off putting to digest. Making a number of smaller points is much easier to digest and helps readers pickup on your points better.
Half of what you say I just don't want to trawl through to pick up on your perhaps valid points.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of air pollution in Mossley, the mere fact in itself that Plevins have situated such a plant right in the middle of an area like that smacks of unbelievable arrogance and selfishness. I myself don't live in Mossley, but I do visit the area occasionally to enjoy the local scenery around Saddleworth and Longdendale. The importance of industry should always be balanced against the importance of land, and it doesn't strike me that any such balance has been struck here.
If I had the means to buy my own property (which I don't) I certainly wouldn't choose the scenic overlook of a wood scrapyard like that with its accompanying noise each and everyday. They might well have chosen somewhere a bit less conspicuous than a rural area which is such a valuable asset to ALL the local population, rather than jobs for a tiny few many of whom probably do not even live in Mossley.
Out of curiosity, I'd like to know the address of Jamie Plevin and his ardent little supporter on here. If he and they can show us that they also live beside some similar set up then we can end this debate now. Otherwise, the rest of us will continue to treat anything that they say with the contempt it deserves.
Anonymous said...
..It should also be noted that any particles carried in rainfall are likely to have traveled from much further away.
Sorry about that its coming your way from the M60/M67
breathing in all that shit is not good for you my doctor told me.
Actually, although my comments were about wood dust/particulates and the ill health effects in general of any community exposed in this way, I do believe that tests done here have shown that the dust hasn't come from the M60, as no actual evidence of that in there. What testing by the EA and others has found, from samples taken from the almost PERMANENT EA dust monitor that is sited in a nearby field (that should speak volumes even to the unenlightened), is that it contains wood dust/fibres, paint flakes, textile fibres, glass shards (aka c/silica), white, as yet unidentifed, amorphous flakes (very concerning!) and other fragments that are related to recycling of construction and demolition waste and wood products. AND before you rant on about that old chestnut of it coming from the Sahara, when tested there wasn't a camel hair in sight! Sorry to disappoint you but those are the facts. Together with years of filming of huge swathes of dust clouds seen clearly coming from the huge mountains of waste (yes they are actually 'mountains' so high that a JCB type digger sat on top looked like it was a toy, that's how big it gets!) blowing over towards residents homes and lots of neighbours who are fully documenting these many incidents and have been for years, as is officially recorded with the EA and other authorities - well what more can I say. By the way for the person that can't read more than a paragraph, please don't worry about it because I'm not! Although if you could manage it you will definitely learn something I promise you that. There are plenty who can and who will understand and then be able to make their own informed choices as to what and who they believe, hopefully after they have done their own research and checks, which I always encourage and advocate that anyone does before making up their own minds. It'a all in the public domain for anyone to find but will take copious amounts of your time, that's the only drawback but well worth the effort. I did keep it as non technical as I could so that the majority could understand it. Could have mentioned how much more toxic nano sized particles are and about PM 10 and PM 2.5 sized particles but didn't want to blind you with the science behind all this. Sometimes facts sadly speak for themselves and here they're actually shouting out quite loudly I have to say, to anyone who cares to listen that is. What matters the most here is that this kind of exposure to dust/emissions is definitely harmful to health and should be stopped for that reason alone, no matter where it's coming from it's very, very wrong to expose people in this way. Just to add if I were a resident, if they haven't already done it, I would also be involving the HSE. People wrongly think that their duty is only yo what happens inside a business but it's not, as actually their remit is to intervene and investigate when anything such as dust or other such emissions goes beyond the boundaries of the business/company/firm and has the potential to affect the general public and their immediate surroundings. It's not uncommon for many public agencies and authorities to become involved in situations such as these. Personally I would involve them all just to be on the safe side.
I do live near to the Plevins site and the benefits to our community outweigh the minimal disruption caused by noise and dust. We need jobs and Plevins must not be forced to close because of a vocal minority who do not rely on this company for their livelihood's.
Who mentioned that anywhere should close or that jobs should be lost? In reality no one has, just the usual scaremongering. As far as I'm aware residents have only ever asked for dust, emissions and noise nuisance to stop, simple as. Not unreasonable in my opinion for those who clearly live close enough for their lives to be blighted unreasonably so, to be asking for this, this is surely not unreasonable in anyone's opinion? Anyone with any sense, any reasonable person would be doing exactly the same no matter where it's coming from, why would they not? No decent person would be wanting this to happen to anyone surely? I wonder if they had a vested interest that it may dictate their opinion? Would I want my health or that of my child put a risk for the financial benefits of others, or for a few people to have jobs, then NO I wouldn't want that for myself or anyone else for that matter, why would anyone want that when it's not necessary? Lots of companies manage to operate sensibly and without causing any nuisance whatsoever to others, so it can be acheived. It's so simple, all the residents want is for the unecessary dust, emissions and noise to stop. So whoever's causing it stops. So simple! So why's it not happening here then? Ask yourselves that. Makes you wonder why doesn't it?
You can argue the toss about certain (most likely ambient) particles being present in the air which i still maintain are lower than that of many places of similar surroundings. I do not believe that Plevins IS responsible.
You can bang on about carcinogens all day but the truth is we have those all over. Cars kill more people that many would like to admit even more than smoking but no one wants to have that debate. Do you own a car?
Oh sorry one person living nearby apparently has respiratory problems. Must be Plevins fault. Really? Are you sure?
And also as for finding all these spurioujs partical types. Ever thought that the topology and rain fall might have something to do with it.
Rain cloud meets hills and it rains. Anything carried in that rain comes with it.
I ain't no expert in precipitation and thermal dynamics for sure or want the boring particle physics lecture that even Brian Cox couldn't of achived given so far. I am certain that you are blaming them for something that actually is a far greater problem nothing to do with them.
As I said several times, I agree with cracking down on industrial pollution and with out as far as that point goes. I find the angle you are taking on this debate to be far fetched and very misleading.
out=you
@Scrapyard Scraped..
I have already told you I do live near sites that cause similar pollution. I have Chartrange pretty damn close. One of their trucks nearly choked me to death with dust this week. I had to hold my breath (not that I could get any) for almost a minute.
I am not here to fly no flag for Plevins. I just think your debate is unbalanced and that is the only reason I am taking part. That and the fierce criticism I have had so far for opening my mouth. Part of me is saying my bother. So many people responding to my comments seem to have it in for them no matter what.
Someone 'Protesteth Too Loudly' methinks! Wonder why?
Anonymous said: 'You can bang on about carcinogens all day but the truth is we have those all over.'
We're not all showered in a particular carcinogen -wood/construction dust 24/7 though are we?
Oh well the truth, that you speak so fondly of, will out one day - it always does!
The truth has no sell by date!
check out the cloud of wood dust in this video, yes it all made up isn't up by those with nothing better to worry about.
Any one who thinks wood dust is little more than an unpleasant smell should just try a quick google search.
Loads of people reported nosebleeds near rajas and a woman has a hole in her nose and she's not a skanky druggie . People have got nosebleeds in Bolton near a wood yard, it was on the BBC a few months ago . I looked it up on the HSE website and nosebleeds are a reaction to wood dust. Just google it , it's all there if you can be bothered.
Oh come on, wood dust comes from a natural source i.e. trees so how can you claim it is damaging? The fact is you want this plant closed for selfish reasons and you do not care about the workers who will be forced onto the dole if you get your way.
"wood dust comes from a natural source i.e. trees so how can you claim it is damaging?"
LOL - know anything about hemlock, heroin and snake poison? What a moron. Bear in mind we're talking about wood in contact with lungs not the outer surfaces of the body.
Wood dust per se is an officialy classified group 1 carcinogen on the same level as asbestos. The clue is in the word 'DUST', not wood in it's solid form. The IARC classified wood dust per se as a carcinogen in 1995 based on research done in the 1960's in British Furniture making industry. Since then wood composite boards such as MDF, chipboard, OSB, wood cement boards, etc have increased dramatically and the toxic dust from those is also classifed on the same terms. HOWEVER, the dust from any of these is far more toxic and dangerous because it consists of many additional chemicals and substances that are also toxic and/or carcinogenic. When they are 'recycled' for example, you also have to include in the dust any scratch resistant coatings, varnishes, pvc coatings/edging, etc., that will also contain many chemicals such as crystalline silica which is another group 1 carcinogen, also lnked to causing autoimmune diseases. ALL these are harmful to health when inhaled as a respirable dust. REMEMBER AS A DUST. When the size of the dust particles are smaller than PM2.5 (they are so fine that they cannot be seen by the naked eye) and are so small that they can actually pass beyond the lung wall via the alveoli and through vein walls and so can actually reach any part of the body. That's why exposure to wood dust is now linked to other cancers (other than the usual nasopharyngeal/adenocarcinoma's) cancers, respiratory diseases, etc. Wood dust can also cause dermatitis. Wood is also treated with wood preservatives, pesticides (some have c/silica added to it as it scratches the exo-skeleton of the pest, the hard outer cuticle like shell & that aids ingestion of the poison by the pest), fungicides, formaldehyde, fire retardants, & so on. You don't have to be Einstein to work out for yourselves that to inhale this respirable dust or to ingest it, and to absorb these into your system is so not good at all, especially long term. Worse for babies & kids too, they just don't stand a chance. Even with natural wood they contain many natural chemicals that are not good to inhale and are often also treated with preservatives and pesticides as they're felled. Natural wood also contains cyrstalline silica too. The wood industry has for years now struggled with the premature blunting of the industrial strength diamond and tungsten carbide tipped saw blades and their own research done for some decades now and even as recently as 2012 was still proving that it was due to the high silica content. Again you don't have to be Einstein to work out that if it does this to these industrial strength blades then what is it doing to the lungs of woodworkers, those working in the wood trades, anyone working where there is wood dust produced or indeed any residents that may be exposed to it and they don't get provided with PPE either. Also freshly fractured c/silica, as would happen with sawing, chipping, processing, is more toxic than aged c/silica, so anyone chipping, sawing, sanding, wood machining especially, is very at risk and should be wearing properly fitting respirators at all times. then you get the heavy metals, need I continue or have you got the message. Don't take work clothes homes, it will be on there too. So NO it may be natural but that doesn't mean to say it can't be harmful. Just to add it's the science, the research and the various authorities that do, so not just me or anyone else. It's proven and it's official. Now which part of that do you not understand? Telling you this because you are clearly not aware of the dangers and because I do care for the workers too, which is why I mention workplace expsoures too. What's the good of a job if your too ill to do it anymore?Check it out for yourselves it's all out there waiting for you to find in the public domain.
Another boring particle physics lecture. Still my point is you cannot prove that Plevins is polluting Mossley with any of it. Get that into your thick skull.
Yes OSB and MDF and many others are evil products which in my opinion should be banned full stop but can you find any evidence that any of that is escaping. I think not. Or that any harmful levels of anything have even been found that cannot be found anywhere else. NOPE!
@All lies (re:video)
A 1 min video showing a bit of dust that disperses. Hardly going to wipe out the population of Mossley.
RE: Nose bleeds.. Sounds like anything happens in Mossley you think its plevins fault. Do you blame the weather on them too?
Plevins isn't fitting in with your Feng Shui I guess.
And how exactly do you define "a bit"? Anything short of a nuclear sized mushroom cloud? Really, if you going to make flippant comments that amount to little more than trolling then perhaps you're the one charlie who needs to fill his time with something better.
When that sort of noise and air pollution is within close proximity to homes, residents have a right to be concerned, whether dismissive arrogant so&sos such as you like it or not.
Personally, I doubt you are a spokesman for Pleven's and I also doubt you have any connections in Mossley, be it local residents OR WORKERS. Going off your trollish comments, it's a fair bet that what you actually are is a seriously committed time waster who enjoys sticking his nose where it has no business being, and one best avoided by serious folk.
Thanks for the info on the dangers of wood dust. I really had no idea it was dangerous. Apologies for my earlier comment about trees and wood being a natural product.
'Apollo said...
Thanks for the info on the dangers of wood dust. I really had no idea it was dangerous. Apologies for my earlier comment about trees and wood being a natural product...'
You're very welcome. Don't worry, you're not the only one to think like that, so did I until some years ago, that is until it made me incurably ill. When you have to have chemo it kind of changes your perspective on life, largely because being so sick destroys your life as you know it in every way, not just physically. Trust me employers don't usually wnat to know you then, no matter how loyal an employee you are.
There is lots more but as long as people are beginning to understand how bad and how harmful wood DUST can be no matter where it's from, then that's excellent.
';;Anonymous said...
Another boring particle physics lecture. Still my point is you cannot prove that Plevins is polluting Mossley with any of it. Get that into your thick skull.
Yes OSB and MDF and many others are evil products which in my opinion should be banned full stop but can you find any evidence that any of that is escaping. I think not. Or that any harmful levels of anything have even been found that cannot be found anywhere else. NOPE!...'
Firstly, I am not trying to prove anything, other than how harmful wood dust and such emissions are to health, and I have clearly stated that my advice is in general terms to anyone who is exposed to wood dust and dust from construction waste, no matter where it is coming from, so please do not twist my words. I am entitled to my opinion on what these residents are suffering and why, as you are yours. However, mine is an informed opinion based on years of research and is backed up by evidence that is scientific and peer reviewed. Clearly yours is not.
Whilst I agree that there may be one or two real numb skulls posting on here, I'm certainly not one of those with a 'thick skull' as you seem to refer to me here, but then you clearly already realise that, as in a previous post you likened me to Brian Cox.
Clearly you don't understand the basic science I post. I'm sorry that you couldn't understand it, I did try and keep it as simple as I could for everyone to understand including you. Which part of wood dust per se is a carcinogen (to explain it's a substance that has been proven to cause cancer via research) did you not understand, do let me know and then maybe I could try and explain that for you in more basic terms perhaps?
To remind you,the largest and most experienced organisations and authorities in the world all agree that there is no safe level of exposure to a classified Group 1carcinogen. Did you understand that statement? It means you don't necessarily have to be exposed to high levels for certain toxic carcinogenic substances to cause cancers or other ill health either for that matter.
I'm so pleased that you agree that wood composite boards are harmful to health ('evil' you said) and you said should be banned. Maybe some should be but made more safely would be a good start and employees exposed to the DUST from them less so & to be better protected with appropriate PPE all the time and for it to be compulsory. In addition to that residents who are not afforded any of these things, no PPE, etc, that they should never be exposed at all, no matter where from from or for why?
I have to disagree wood dust per se, is not found everywhere, as you would like people to believe and nor are certain other toxic/carcinogenic chemicals and substances such as formaldyhyde, CCA, asbestos, glass shards, etc., to name a few examples. Professional tests with specialist companies (not the EA)of course can prove exactly what is in any particular dust and these tests aren't as expensive as you think they are, as we found when doing some tests of our own. Can very revealing and shocking too, especially when explained by an expert! These results can also help to pinpoint where a particular DUST/emission has come from too if they need to.
Do some research check these things out for yourself and anything you don't understand do let me know. Hope this has helped you.
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