Friday, 9 March 2012

Yet another reason why the Hang 'Em High brigade should never be listened to

Hundreds of cases could be reviewed after a teenager was wrongly accused of rape because of a forensic blunder.

Adam Scott, 19, was due to stand trial next month in connection with a sex attack on a woman in Blackley, Manchester. He was arrested at his home in Cornwall after DNA was recovered from the scene and was held in Strangeways on remand.

Mr Scott said he had never even visited Manchester – but LGC Forensics, a company used by Greater Manchester Police to carry out scientific testing, said there was a definite match.

Now the M.E.N. can reveal the case against Mr Scott, which was based entirely on the DNA evidence, has been dropped after it emerged the sample was contaminated.

Mr Scott’s DNA sample had arrived in an LGC laboratory a few days earlier in relation to another matter, and it is understood it was allowed to come into contact with a swab collected from the rape scene.

Mr Scott has now been completely cleared. Read more Manchester Evening News

How many innocent souls have perished throughout history as a result of being wrongly executed as a result of flawed or fabricated evidence? Far too many is the simple answer.

Supporters of the death penalty today claim that miscarriages of justice are a thing of the past and can no longer happen thanks to the introduction of ‘indisputable’ DNA evidence. What a load of bunkum, ask young Adam Scott and I am sure he will confirm this.

Recently this country witnessed the jailing of two men, admittedly two unpleasant men who certainly used racist language when in their teens, these two men were jailed for the murder of Stephen Lawrence, but no right minded person, when studying the facts of the case and not the hysteria surrounding it could say their convictions were safe and do bear in mind these two characters had twice previously been acquitted of the same charge.

The trial in which they were both convicted was based around new and highly dubious DNA evidence. If Britain still had the death penalty the two convicted for the Lawrence murder would now be dead and decomposing within the walls of Wandsworth Prison. When the cross contamination of the flawed DNA evidence is eventually proven, it would not bring them back from the dead.

It must be remembered that as long as there is human involvement there will always be a margin for error and when that error can lead to innocent people being executed all right minded people should always oppose calls to reintroduce capital punishment in the UK. Tameside Citizen


Roy K West said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shame on the Political Enforcers of a Corrupt Regime said...

Don't mention Dunkirk - or the war in Mad House Britain because if a certain Deutschland ├╝ber alles takes it the wrong way you will have Smersh back at your door carting you off to the clink again.

Inri said...

West the Jew hater has Jesus on his side?????
You're either high, bonkers or simply vile.....take your pick.

Bent MP's = Willing Servants of the Anti-Christ's said...

Zionist massacre of Palestinian children

set him free said...

I agree all those people in Hyde were wrong,all them residents on Glemore road are wrong,Taylor is in the wrong the man from the BNP is a saint and should be allowed to carry on with his community voluntary work.

Matthew 4:1-11 said...

Roy West is being tempted to respond to the faceless devil on this blog who is trying to provoke him. Read scripture Roy West and ignore the provocation of the devil.

Jesus Is Tempted by the Devil.

Mark 1:12-13

and immediately doth the Spirit put him forth to the wilderness, 13 and he was there in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Adversary, and he was with the beasts, and the messengers were ministering to him

Free The Lawrence Two said...

The credibility of LGC and the integrity of its procedures to guard against contamination was central to the conviction of two men for the murder of Stephen Lawrence in January. Gary Dobson and David Norris were convicted predominantly on the basis of forensic evidence from LGC. The trial judge directed that the jury could not consider any other evidence until they were sure they could rule out contamination, which had been the key argument in the defence case.

Frank Castle said...

He was cleared when the error was realised before the trial started. These errors are virtually unknown with modern forensic science methods. Hysteria about potential errors is no reason to insufficiently punish criminals. Balanced judgement is what's needed.
What was 'dubious' about the Lawrence DNA? unless you're suggesting it was a plant. In the highly unlikely event that is true it's got absoulutely nothing to do with the reliability of DNA per se.
When there is any GENUINE doubt a second sample is taken, and always confirms or (in an infintesimally small number of cases) refutes the original one. The fact is if the death penalty was in force and Mr Scott had been charged with murder he WOULDN'T have hanged because the error came to light.
If you're anti death penalty tell us what the substitute punishment should be for people who rape and murder children for example. Life imprisonment isn't good enough, it devalues the quality of the offence and doesn't satisfy the posthumous rights of the victim or the right of society to inflict the ultimate sanction on those who DESERVE it.

Anonymous said...

Frank Castle asks what was dubious about the Stephen Lawrence DNA. Well maybe the fact that the privatised forensic lab responsible for this latest cock up just so happened to be the same privatised forensic lab which returned the contaminated DNA result which lead to the wrongful conviction of Norris and Dobson.

They may be racists but that does not make them murderers.


I would love to see all the scum get hung but not the innocent ? So 10 years in jail first and if nowt new comes to lite string up

Reason over Bloodlust said...

LTN, that is the whole point. The guilty can hang but the pro-execution lunatics are prepared to accept ‘collateral damage’ insomuch as that if a few innocent people get executed too it’s just tough luck. Thank the dear lord that we live in more enlightened times and that the death penalty will never be reintroduced.

If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear - woteva! said...

Total surveillance comes to the UK.

Frank Castle said...

You're right, thank goodness Ian Brady avoided the death penalty and has lived for another 47 years, so far. At our expense as well. You're also right that it was well worth keeping him alive as there is a one in ten trillion chance he might be innocent, and what he put those children through clearly isn't as important as your self obsessed sensitivity about the infintesimally small chances of a miscarriage of justice.

Grow some said...

The chance of Brady being innocent is probably in excess of fifty billion to one. An utterly absurd 'reason' not to execute someone who clearly deserves it. Get off your morality hobby horse TC, you sound like an irrational, shrieking, menopausal woman.

RIP Troy Davis said...

Just one innocent person executed is one too many. Look at the case of Stefan Kiszko. The pro-execution sadists would have been overjoyed had this innocent man been executed just as they would have been celebrating had Norris & Dobson been executed.

You can be 100% guaranteed that the pro-execution fanatics are also blood sport fanatics who enjoy the spectacle of animals being killed.

There is no place for execution in the civilized world until we have a justice system where errors are guaranteed never to occur.

Anonymous said...

The anti-rope brigade conveniently never mention the fact that many innocent people die thanks to their own system of 'deterrence'. The freed murderers who kill again, not to mention the massive scandalous trebling of the murder rate post-abolition. The abolitionists have as much innocent blood on their hands as anyone, and they really shouldn't get so sanctimonious on the issue.

Average annual murder rate (Eng. & Wales) 1955-59 = 290

1960-64 = 290

last execution 1964

1965-69 = 384

1970-74 = 480

1975-79 = 544

1980-84 = 593

1985-89 = 650

1990-95 = 845

you can take the beast from the jungle but you cannot take the jungle from the beast said...

Your figures fail to take into account the third world population explosion and subsequent rise in crime which perfectly mirror your figures. I would argue that abolition of the death penalty has a lot less to do with your figures than population growth fuelled by violent immigrants.

SerpentSlayer said...

I am all for the death sentence.

I do not see why scum must live and the honourable must suffer their presence. Stefan Klitchko died anyway as a result of the stress of his wrongful imprisonment!

Caging a man with assorted psychos and villains is far more humane than a quick painless death I'm sure.

I'm sticking by my guns with this one TC, and my rope and my guillotine and my needle and my stake and get the idea.

No Prevarication just yes or no said...

Death penalty supporter. Here is a simple question and I want a simple Yes or No with no prevarication.

Is it acceptable to occasionaly execute an innocent person,Yes or No?

Anonymous said...

So Serpent Slayer, you would be happy for the occasional innocent person to be executed as long as most of the time the guilty die too?

Anonymous said...

So it seems that third world immigration into the UK began in 1964. Actually I think you need to look nearly 20 years previous to that.

As for the 'occasional innocent person'.... face it like a man (or woman) I say. Price worth paying for a bit of good old fashioned justice. I'd certainly run the slight risk of wrongly being sent to the gallows for the sake of seeing child murderers and other such scum pay for their crimes.

Perhaps the anti-rope brigade should come clean as to what their pacifist convictions are (or aren't). When we commit to warfare against other nations (whether rightly or wrongly) that always risks killing innocent people, far more than were ever sent to the gallows.

Labour MPs who helped rid us of the death penalty don't seem to have a problem risking killing innocent people when bombing civilian cities. Only full-bloodied pacifists are in any moral position to play the 'innocent lives' card. Most of the other anti-rope fraternity use that particular argument at their own convenience.

Anonymous said...

For those not entirely convinced by the figures, this should look even more persuasive....

England and Wales
1955 - 279
1956 - 315
1957 - 321
1958 - 261
1959 - 266
1960 - 282
1961 - 265
1962 - 299
1963 - 307
1964 - 296 ABOLITION
1965 - 325
1966 - 364
1967 - 414
1968 - 420
1969 - 395
1970 - 396
1971 - 459
1972 - 480
1973 - 465
1974 - 599

tonydj said...

To all those who say "The innocent have nothing to fear2 I respond with two words.

Stefan Kiszko

End of discussion

You're just as bad as the murderers you condemn said...

So there we have it, the people with a desire to inflict death upon to others care not of the innocent or guilt of the victims, to them it is all about the thrill of the kill in the name of their distorted view of justice. We should all be grateful these bloodthirsty psychopaths will always be on the margins of society and that they will never have the chance to influence serious discussion on issues of law and order.

SerpentSlayer said...

In a world where death is feared, life is not valued.
If the lives of crooks and murderers are sacred and to be protected then what are our lives worth?

There must be a line drawn. The lives of those who kill women and children in cold blood must be forfeit or else we must pay for their survival.

Persistent criminals also, the kind that commit crimes on a near weekly basis, thieves, drug addicts, career criminals, so much easier to allow decent citizens to shoot them on sight like parts of America did until not long ago.

What I propose is that we sacrifice such villainy as we once did, to spell out the importance of the destruction of such people. In the past our ancestors beleived such things would bring us favour from the gods, in truth we will bemuch blessed. For a society without deviants and trouble makers is blessed indeed.

Roy K West said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
In the face of wicked lies of a neighbour said...

“Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid...for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.”

“He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defense; I shall not be moved.”


Offended by poppies and flags in my garden. said...

“Be patient and you will finally win, for a soft tongue can break hard bones. (Proverbs 28:13)”

“I will deal with them according to their conduct, and by their own standards I will judge them”

Telling wicked lies get someone in court said...

“The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.”

Anonymous said...

In the ten years following the UK's final execution, the homicide (murder and manslaughter combined)rate in England and Wales doubled.

What is so stark about the stats is how loudly and unequivocally they speak. It is unthinkable that in those short ten years social / cultural changes were solely to blame for the sharp and sudden rise. The IRA attacks on the UK mainland in the 70s would account for a small proportion (45 killed between 72-74).

How we account for an extra 300 people being killed in 1974 compared to ten years previous is the issue. Were hundreds of innocent people being sent to the gallows each year prior to 1965? The abolitionists will never accept responsibility for these deaths, instead they'll continue to just point the finger at the opposition for the appalling loss of innocent life they are responsible for.

In 1995 753 homicides were recorded. We can never know the true toll of innocent life slain as a result of the abolition of capital punishment. It is a fair bet however that far more innocent people were (and still are being) sent to an early grave as a result of today's policy.

Rehabilitation not Retribution said...

What a totally flawed outlook on life these pro-death entusiasts have.

Corrupt police caught trying to frame innocent men who would have hanged said...

It was often simple minded folk like yer man West who was wrongly executed when we still had hanging. The case of Timothy Evans, an epic tragedy is well documented. Far too often the main police objective was/is to get a conviction regardless of the innocent or guilt of the suspect. Let's be realistic, capital punishment has no place in the civilized world.

Anonymous said...

Traditionally the majority of Labour and LibDem MPs have always been against capital punishment, whilst the Tories tended to be split 50:50. On that basis hanging could never return, at least as long as the political landscape remains pretty much unchanged.

RIP Mark MacPhail said...

Troy Davis murdered Police Officer Mark MacPhail in 1989. Davis got an extra 22 years of life than his victim. Save your sympathy for Officer MacPhail and his family.

Ian Karl said...

Timothy Evans was convicted for murdering his daughter. After Christie was convicted an investigation later concluded that Evans had not murdered his daughter but had probably murdered his wife with whom he had an extremely volatile relationship. In 2003 Evans' family received compensation and a statement was issued that there was no evidence Evans had murdered his wife. The case has however never been officially re-opened despite repeated appeals from the family.
Ludovic Kennedy's (an ardent abolitionist) book is an appallingly biased and one-sided account of the case. I recommend, 'The Two Killers of Rillington Place' by John Eddowes for a reasoned account of the FACTS of the case.

Frank Castle said...

Stefan Kiszko would never be convicted now. His conviction was secured by West Yorkshire Police in the mid 70s, the same force that made such a mess of the Yorkshire Ripper investigation.

Tell us the justification for keeping creatures like Brady alive for half a century. Better still read the full transcript of the tape recording of what they did to Lesley Ann Downey (it's in the book 'One of Your Own' by Carol Ann Lee) and while your blood's running cold tell us why Brady didn't DESERVE execution.
The truth is there is no REASON NOT TO exterminate such people, but the personal squeamishness of the anti-death penalty cranks is an all consuming form of infantile selfishness.

Never Again said...

Probably is no good when you are dangling on the end of a rope with a broken neck suffocating. When life or death matters are concerned 'probably' should not be part of the equation. The human body is designed to survive trauma and to kill a human is no easy task. The terror of the walk to the gallows is only part of the ordeal, once the trap has sprung and your neck has been dislocated you start to slowly suffocate.

At the end of the war in the town of Hameln in Germany the butcher Pierpont, and lets hope he is burning in hell, was tasked with executing so many POW’s that the mandatory hour wait from drop to removal of the victims corpse was not possible. It was discovered that in most cases the hearts of the victims were still beating twenty minutes after they had been hanged so Pierpont and Sgt McRae started injecting pure antifreeze into the beating hearts of the victims to speed up the process. The thought of that savagery being inflicted upon war criminals is horrifying but to think of it happening to totally innocent victims of miscarriages of justice is horrifying.

20/20 vision said...

Frank Castle has great faith in the state law enforcers and the wonderful science of DNA analysis. So much so he believes that there can be no such thing as a miscarriage of justice in modern Britain. Tell me this Frank, can you hand on heart say the convictions of Norris and Dobson regarding the Stephen Lawrence murder are safe convictions bearing in mind the lab which cross cantaminated DNA results in the Adam Scott case was the same lab responsible for the DNA results which convicted Norris and Dobson?

Frank Castle said...

Never Again, the British method of hanging was revolutionised in the 1870s by executioner William Marwood who developed the 'Table of Drops' based on a prisoner's weight and general build. Also known as the 'Long Drop Method' the condemned would normally fall about six or seven feet and their neck would be broken instantaneously resulting in immediate death. So successful was this method the table remained virtually uncahnged until 1964 when the last UK hanging took place. There were virtually no cases of suffocation after Marwood's method began.
The American Sergeant John C Woods executed many war criminals and either used the wrong length rope or is rumoured to have used a standard length for every job resulting in some cases of suffocation. There were no such cases with pierrepoint so skilled was he in the British method.
Instead of continually harping on about the Stephen lawrence case answer the points raised about what would be a suitable alternative punishment for people like Brady, Sutcliffe, Robert Black etc. The fact is, there isn't one, and the infintesimally small chance of executing an innocent man, given current scientific methods and legal safeguards, is a pathetic and barren line of argument.

Anonymous said...

Frank Castle is a bitter and sick man.

Yes or No said...

So Frank Castle, you are stating you would be happy to see Norris & Dobson hang because there is no doubt in your mind that they are both guilty of the murder of Stephen Lawrence?

I Bet Frank Castle Reads The Daily Mail said...

The microscopic evidence apparently recovered by private firm LGC Forensics included a 0.5 mm wide spot of blood on the collar of a jacket belonging to Dobson, as well as fibres matching those taken from Stephen Lawrence’s clothes; Norris was convicted based on minute fibres and hairs found on a pair of his trousers and sweatshirt.

At the time it was noted that:

There are, however, significant questions surrounding the reliability of this forensic evidence. Items of clothing from both the accused and Stephen Lawrence were stored together, and as the protective packaging was not designed to last, the tape sealing the packages had lost its stickiness. The defence argued that blood flakes, fibres and hairs could have entered the packages due to this deteriorated packaging. Such fibres were likely to be in abundance in the packages containing Stephen Lawrence’s clothing, due to an accident and emergency nurse having cut off his clothes, apparently releasing a "shower" of material.

We further went on to detail how:

There are other important points to mention regarding the credibility of the new forensic evidence. Dobson’s jacket had at one point been removed from its packaging and laid on a cell floor to be photographed. Some of the items had not been immediately put into bags. In 1993, exhibits were mislabelled, and officers handling the exhibits had also visited the Lawrences at their home, suggesting the possibility of contamination.
Today it was astoundingly revealed that a rape case has this week collapsed, due to the aforementioned LGC Forensics admitting that a sample in its possession became so contaminated that it could not be offered in evidence. The defendant was acquitted after prosecutors decided they could no longer rely on LGC's contaminated evidence, and The Guardian cites a "senior source" as bluntly stating that:

Potentially this has national implications. Hundreds of cases will have to be reviewed. We have no idea what the parameters will have to be. It's serious – it's dealing with the credibility of the system.
The evidence had become seriously contaminated during the testing process at LGC's laboratory - exactly the claim made by the defence during Dobson's and Norris's recent murder trial. The judge in the trial, Mr Justice Treacy, even directed the jury that they should acquit both defendants unless they were sure scientific evidence allegedly tying them to the murder scene was not the result of contamination.

Clearly this latest revelation makes both Dobson's and Norris's convictions unsafe. As well as the dubious forensic evidence coming from a company whose admitted contamination of evidence may lead to "hundreds of convictions" being reviewed, there is no other evidence - besides hearsay evidence and racist comments made by the defendents during controversial covert surveillance - against the convicted men. Both Norris and Dobson have consistently denied murdering Stephen Lawrence, Dobson telling the jury, "You have condemned an innocent man here. I hope you can live with yourselves" as he was led down following his conviction.

Both men, who were sentenced to terms of 14 and 15 years, have lodged appeals against their convictions. Following the relentless efforts by the establishment to secure Dobson's and Norris's convictions, as well as their unceasing demonization by the mainstream media and pariah status in the eyes of the British public, it awaits to be seen whether they will receive a fair trial if and when their case goes to appeal.

owned owned owned owned said...

Ha, Frank has been truly owned and has no answer to that one. He is a hypocrite if he says no and a psycopath if he says yes.

SerpentSlayer said...

We must understand that the abolition of the death penalty was a result of Marxist influence on our political system, it must also be said that the defendants of the Stephen Lawrence case have also been the victims of a Marxist and Marxist influenced media.

So it is also illogical to beleive that either man would have ever been hanged for the crime. The double jeopardy laws would not have been changed to try them were it not for the Marxist Labour party either.

I don't see how the horrendous treatment of German POWs has anything to do with the issue 'never again'. That was a result of our country being misled by a son of a whore who was in the pay of Jewish bankers and the subsequent subversion of our legal system.

Personally I would symbolically hang the corpse of that bloated piece of shit, if it were possible I would resurrect the bastard and give him the short drop treatment (after a few days of torture methods I have read about in my studies of the witch hunts that is)

Case Study said...

SS, he is cornered and has no way out. Do not help him answer the question and let us see how responds.

Frank Castle said...

The alleged contamination in the Lawrence case took place 20 years ago and has nothing to do with LCG. Alleged contamination is a common defence tactic regarding DNA and is virtually never successful.
You are rehashing LCG's error in the sex attack case and again fail to answer my point that the error was discovered well before any possible conviction. Let us know if and when any of these supposed 'hundreds of cases' are overturned.
If the death penalty was reintroduced every i would have to be dotted and t crossed before an execution went ahead. The slightest grain of doubt in the jurys or appeal board's minds would result in commutation to life imprisonment. I believe Norris and Dobson's re-prosecution was politically motivated, and as such is unsafe, buit that is a separate issue to the validity of DNA and the reinstatement of the death penalty. Their appeal is yet to be heard. I also believe if the death penalty had been a possible outcome the jury would have found them not guilty.
You have failed to address any of my points re a suitable alternative punishment for the worst offenders. Read the horrific transcript of the Lesley Ann Downey tape and come back and tell us Brady's half a century, and counting, of further existence was the correct outcome.
The core of your argument is that because there is an infintesimally small chance of a miscarriage of justice under modern procedure, the criminal justice system should bottle it and fail to give the Sutcliffes and Wests of this world what they deserve. No doubt you'll still be saying that when Rose West celebrates her ninetieth birthday at our expense. Just as long as your delicate sensibilities aren't tarnished these beasts should be let off.

The Punisher said...

Peter Sutcliffe AKA the Yorkshire Ripper, killer and mutilator of )at least 13 women today announced from his comfortable room in Broadmoor that he intends to appeal to the European Court of Human rights for his state pension. Imagine if you were a relative of innocent 16 year old Jayne MacDonald who was butchered by Sutcliffe, still having to read about this monster's existence, let alone his nauseating appeals for a pension or better treatment etc 35 years later. He's only 65, this could go on for twenty years or more.
Miss MacDonald would only have been fifty even now and was robbed of many decades of life, but some think the virtually non-existent chance of Sutcliffe's innocence a good enough 'reason' to keep evil beings like him alive. What a pathetically spineless and fundamentally selfish position that is.

Frank Dreams Of Sharing A Bed With Peter Hitchens said...

Come on Frankie Boy, you’ve been well and truly owned on all fronts. Your arguments do not stand up to scrutiny and let all non-bloodthirsty citizens rejoice that we now live in enlightened times.

With regards to Sutcliffe, Brady, West etc, sure they’re nasty people and in principle I would have no objection to them to facing the ultimate penalty if it was 100% certain they committed the crimes, in case of Brady and Sutcliffe this is indeed the case. But I would sooner have 100 of the worlds wickedest murderers live the rest of their lives in a secure prison than one innocent person ending up wrongly executed.

With regards to your belief that DNA is the ultimate decider and that apart from the Adam Scott and Stephen Lawrence cases mistakes do not happen. I suggest you follow these links to see how wrong you are.






So I will stop now and let you get back to reading the Daily Mail, but be a nice chap in future Frank and think about issue before typing the first thing that enters your vacuous mind.


Frank Castle said...

It isn't 100% certain that Peter Sutcliffe was the Yorkshire Ripper or that Ian Brady was the Moors Murderer, or that Harold Shipman was a mass murderer etc etc because in every single criminal conviction, apart from filmed evidence etc, there is always an infintesimal amount of doubt. You know this and are clearly happy to let them off with a comfortable cell and continued existence whilst bleating, 'If only I could be 100% sure!' Something which you know is in virtually every case an impossibility. Jury's are instructed to use their common sense and weigh up all the evidence and make a balanced decision beyond a reasonable or, reasoned out, doubt. By your argument we should never convict anyone of anything.
If the death penalty was reintroduced there would indisputably be a re-examination by scientists and legal experts of all aspects of the case, including a re-testing of all relevant DNA samples, the execution would then go ahead, a perfectly reasonable course of events to anyone capable of rational and balanced thought.
The truth is you have an inherent, hysterical bias against the state killing anyonne even when those people are manifestly guilty and manifestly DESERVE it.

Job Vacancy, cold hearted sadist required said...

Frank Castle is living in another age. Frank, here is a serious suggestion, why do you not emigrate to Saudi Arabia, China or Iran? They still have plenty of executions in those countries. Maybe you could apply for the role of executioner through the respective embassies of each country.

frank castle said...

Infantile, irrelevant abuse is no substitute for reasoned argument. Answer the specififc points raised.