Monday 24 August 2009

Opinions on animal welfare



This has nothing to do with Tameside as a borough, but it has a lot to do with humans, many of whom live in Tameside. The reason I am posting this here is to gauge the opinions of people who live in Tameside and post on this site. I am in interested to know what posters thoughts are on animal welfare and animal cruelty.

The reason I post this now is because on the bizarre ‘grow your own spuds’ item, I was engaged in debate by a poster who agrees with whaling. So now is the time where everyone can have their say on the controversial issues surrounding animals - and their rights. Please keep the politics and council related matters on the item below featuring Councillor Bell.

Firstly I would request posters watch the short (1 minute) video clip from the BBC featuring Blue Whales which is narrated by David Attenborough. This sets the tone of the debate from my angle.

I will lay my cards on the table here and now and declare myself a hypocrite. I eat dead animals! I love animals and wildlife, but despite this, I am still addicted to eating them. I have tried ever so hard - and this is still ongoing, to quit eating meat, but me, king of the lecturers, yes, the one who is always giving advice on how people should “use a bit of willpower” to quit smoking or cut down on alcohol consumption, cannot myself stop eating dead animals.

I have been described recently on this blog as a Humanist. I can assure the person who accused me of this that they are wrong. My standpoint on animals - and the abuse of animals is purely of my own doing.

I have just stated that I lack the willpower to stop eating meat, this is true, because meat is so easy to come by. I often get invited to Bem Brazil on King St West in Manchester. If you are a meat eater - this place is heaven. You sit at your table and all manner of assorted dead animals are brought to you for your delectation and you can eat them to your hearts content. However, if things were a little closer to nature and the deal was; first you go into the field armed with a spear, axe and knife, then you slay the beast, when dead you remove what you want to eat from the carcass, after that you wash the blood from your hands, face and hair before you sit down to eat it, I dare say following this my quest to give up meat would be somewhat easier.

I do accept that the scenario I have just stated is going to extremes, but I stand by my point that we as a people have lost touch with nature. I also accept that meat is an integral part of our diet and has been since the dawn of man. My real gripe is not with using animals as a food source, but with the abuse of animals for a whole host of reasons.

I will start with issue of whaling. As stated elsewhere on this blog - I am totally opposed to it in all its manifestations. People may say the Japanese do it for scientific research, the Norwegians want to do it for cultural reason and the Icelandic people because it is a tradition. I say; to want to wilfully destroy and in some cases virtually wipe out an entire species is evil. In less enlightened times the oil and blubber from whales was a valuable resource. We now have synthetic alternatives and the whales should left to roam the seas in peace.

What about the grotesque trade in endangered animals body parts? We are all aware of the slaughter of rhinoceros so their horns can be ground down and used in oriental medicines. The Orientals also like to see tigers slaughtered so their penis’s can be used in aphrodisiac potions. Sharks too, 100,000’s of thousands of sharks every year are caught, have their fins cut off and tossed back into the sea to drown, why? So the fins can be used to make soup in expensive restaurants!

Religious ritual slaughter; wicked beyond belief - and widespread beyond imagination. I was talking to a retired ‘slaughter man’ not long ago. He said slaughter is a nasty and bloody business. He said the animals, especially the large cattle, know they are doomed, but the bolt through the brain is relatively quick and keeps the suffering to a minimum. This is however not the case in religious ritual slaughter, in this barbaric process of say a cow, the doomed beast is forced onto a half barrel type contraption, it is then clamped and spun upside down with hooves in the air and neck exposed. Here a supposed holy man sets about sawing open its throat with a knife while the beast roars in agony and he recites a religious chant. This sickening practice has no place in civilized society.

Bullfighting is another savage practice that I am totally opposed to. I have never been to nor would I go to a bullfight. I have however been to Spain many times - but not since watching a programme about bullfighting on a German satellite channel. This grotesque animal torture is as bad as anything you can imagine and anyone who enjoys this wanton bloodlust is, in my opinion - a sadist.

Anyway, that is enough from me for now. If anyone has any views on this please feel free to share them. I will close by saying; we are the undoubted masters of the animal kingdom. We reign supreme with no challengers we are all powerful and can decide the fate of entire species. But as we know; with power comes responsibility. Just because we can kill and abuse lesser creatures - doesn’t mean we have to!

92 comments:

Red in tooth and claw said...

'Just because we can kill and abuse lesser creatures doesn't mean we have to.'
We should never abuse animals because it is base, sadistic and gratuitous behaviour that lessens us as a species. In other words there's a REASON not to do it. Halal slaughter is an extremely good example of utterly unnecessary suffering inflicted in the name of an unBritish, violent foreign, medieval cult and should be banned.
There is however no REASON not to kill animals and the benefits meat brings humanity, have been and will continue to be enormous, fundamental and extremely significant. Animals should be treated properly during their lifespan and dispatched humanely.
Vegetarians regularly come out with 'moralising' statements such as, 'I don't eat anything with a face', a meaningless and deliberately irrational position.

Anonymous said...

There is a reason not kill rare birds and wipe out the wild life.

Captain Ahab said...

If I won the Lottery I'd pay to go whale hunting and follow that with a safari. I can't stand all this bleeding heart crap from people looking down from the so called moral high ground at those who want to do things that aren't 'nice'. I'm afraid we are becoming massively overfeminised as a society and gynocracys never survive.

Anonymous said...

You should be stuffed

Kraven the Hunter said...

Bloodlust and hunting are natural instincts of man. Kept in check they are useful and fundamental parts of our nature. If we become too soft and divorced from the reality of the natural world it would be extremely detrimental to our species.

Anonymous said...

You are getting boring now go and kill something.

Kraven the Hunter said...

Thanks for confirming you've lost the argument.

Anonymous said...

Not lost the argument got better things to do.
You just post the same old shit on this subject time and time again.

one world said...

Good post from Red in touth aand claw. I think whaling should be banned.

Insider said...

Lady Knighton is a member of Greenpeace.

Little bit this, little bit that said...

It's all the same person
one world, Red in tooth and claw, Kraven the Hunter, Captain Ahab.

Anonymous said...

Not lost the argument.
Don't agree with
Badger baiting.
Fox hunting.
Halal Slaughter.
hare coursing.
Killing rare birds.
Japs killing Wales.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Japs killing Whales

Strength through Diversity said...

The Nazis were animal rights fanatics too. Any further comment would be superfluous.

Anonymous said...

Yes and also extreme left wing fanatics too

no to cruelty said...

What about hunting with dogs, very crual and very elitist. When you next go to vote remember the Tories would never have banned it but Labour did.

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone want to watch a dog kill a fox. Blood sports are evil. Nothing to do with politics it's just cruel.

Tom Hatton said...

"What about hunting with dogs, very crual and very elitist"

There is nothing elitist or cruel about hunting with dogs. Hounds are trained to go straight for the fox's neck, thus inducing a very swift, humane kill. That was agreed with by the All-Parliamentary group on fox hunting.

Similarly, hunting is a high-cost sport, in the sense that hunters will need a horse; strong, durable (thus expensive) clothing; and pay a cap towards fixing broken fences etc. That's no more elitist than say other high-cost sports, such as sailing.

The sooner the right to hunt with hounds is given back to the Englishman the sooner the countryside can feel someone does care about them.

Anonymous said...

It will never happen the vast majority of Brits don't like it. Sorry Tom

Tom Hatton said...

Anonymous - the next Prime Minister is a fox hunter; members of his cabinet are committed country sports enthusiasts. Half the Lib Dems support Hunting - public opinion isn't going to be a problem for this issue!

Kraven the Hunter said...

1) Hunting is not elitist, many ordinary people from all classes who live in the country hunt.
2) It has been proven that fox hunting is one of the quickest types of death for a fox, they don't go into Foxy retirement homes, when they get a bit older or slower they are shot, snared etc or killed by domestic dogs or other foxes.
3)This ban was brought in for reasons of supposed 'class' hatred, all the evidence said there was no justification for a ban, hence the countryside lobby's anger at the Labour government's utter duplicity when they ignored the results of the official inquiry.
4) If the government really cared about amimal cruelty they would ban the atrocity of Halal slaughter, but of course there are 'community' votes in that and it's a valuable foreign practice as opposed to a detestable English traditional one. What's the Tory position on Halal? I'll give you three guesses.
5) The ban is totally unenforcable and there is more foxhunting than ever.
I am not any of the other named contributors.

Go See A Doctor said...

Kraven the Hunter said...

Bloodlust and hunting are natural instincts of man.

I like being ripped apart by dogs said...

Tom lad have you never been chased down the paths by dogs when your out leafleting, (not sure if you do any)dirty great big alsatian snapping at your arse or a rottweiler tearing your arms apart.
If you have you will know how the fox feels, now I know you think its doing the fox a favour its for the good of the foxes ect ,but that's what excuse you blood sport enthusiast come up with.
Ask all the Tory candidate to make a supporting statement on their next local leaflet arguing for fox hunting being brought back, £20 says none of them do it.

Anonymous said...

They won't because it's wrong and vile. It will never be brought back, people don't like it at all.

Anonymous said...

Hey Tom do you like to see a bit of Badger baiting maybe? Now that has got to be one of the sickening things of Blood Sports.

Tom Hatton said...

I have encountered dogs while out leafletting/canvassing and it isn't pleasant. However, humans are superior to foxes and therefore demand more civilised treatment. I realise I may have just made a few of you on here choke in your muesli by stating that but I'm not going to pussy-foot round this subject.

Death is brutal, not pleasant. However, death by hounds (for a fox) is far more humane than the other options. Have any of you come across a fox in a trap after it's been there in agony for hours? It's disgusting, cruel and most of all that's the method you bleeding-heart liberals seem to prefer! Of course, shooting them isn't much less cruel. So, the choice is: seemingly-brutal, swift death - or an exhausting uphill struggle for survival while suffering excruciable pain. I know which one I'd prefer for the fox.

Badger baiting is awful - it serves no purpose. If fox hunting had no purpose i wouldn't support it. Badgers, if they do need to be killed, can be shot quite simply and with great accuracy. I used to badger watch (bit sad, i know)and I've regularly been yards away from badgers for long periods of time. Killing a badger with a dog/terriers is unnecessary and therefore I oppose it.

As for the point about putting it on promotional literature, the Tory candidates in areas where there is fox hunting activity would be happy to put it on. As it happens, in Tameside we have to worry about rising unemployment, wasteful council spending and vicious tax rises. Fox hunting isn't a priority in Tameside so naturally Tory candidates wouldn't bother putting the issue on the limited space they have with leaflets.

Kraven the Hunter said...

Go see a Doctor, are you saying they aren't? Your bleeding heart opinions are at complete variance with all the historical evidence.

Tom Hatton said...

Can you demonstrate some of this 'historical evidence', Kraven?

Kraven the Hunter said...

Mr Hatton, I'll repeat the question. What's the Tory position on Halal?

Tom Hatton said...

To be honest, I have no idea what the Tory position on Halal is. I would however, endeavor to find out, if just for personal interest. I would assume it's pro-Halal. However, I believe that livestock should be immobilised before it is slaughtered, such as being electrocuted. Not too sure if that's compatable with Halal??

If you know more on halal, feel free to enlighten me.

Kraven the Hunter said...

Yes. Man has been hunting and eating meat for millennia. Meat, with its extremely high protein content did two crucial things for early man; stimulated brain development; and gave man far more 'time off' as a high quantity of sustaining meat in the diet meant they had to spend far less time eating and/or searching for food. This combination was crucial to the origin and development of tool use which in itself perpetuated and expanded the aforesaid brain development; a 'virtuous circle' and key driver of our evolution into the planet's dominant species.
It would be detrimental in the extreme to allow the fundamentally irrational 'moralisers' who came to prominence in the latter part of the 20th century to stop man pursuing a practice that is an essential part of his origin, nature and progress simply because they are self-indulgent, squeamish and don't consider it 'nice'.

Tom Hatton said...

Kraven, I agree with you - I come from the religious perspective though; God didn't bless this world with nice, tasty, juicy animals for us to look at. He gave them to us for us to kill and eat.

Anonymous said...

Kraven the Hunter said...

Bloodlust and hunting are natural instincts of man.

We all have a bloodlust?

Kraven the Hunter said...

The crucial part of Halal is that the animal must NOT be pre-stunned (a legal requirement for non-religious slaughter as it has been proven that pre-stunning massively reduces pain and suffering) before its throat is cut. In other words, medieval mumbo jumbo takes precedence over British law and as with Sharia and other Islamic incursions into our culture you end up with a two tier legal system, a recipe for division and chaos.
Pre-stunning was brought in for a reason, but the prevention of animal cruelty and equal treatment for all under the law are now secondary to grovelling for votes, by all the main Parties, from the rapidly expanding 'community'.

Anonymous said...

Kraven the Hunter said...

Bloodlust and hunting are natural instincts of man.

All your comments go by the way a comment like the above shows that you need to see a doctor

Kraven the Hunter said...

I don't mean savagery and killing for the sake of killing which still goes on in large parts of the world, particularly sub-saharan Africa where men often kill each other as well as animals fo personal pleasure. I mean the desire to hunt and kill animals for the benefits we innately know they bring us, i.e. our species benefits from the animal being killed. The former is gratuitous sadism, The latter is the law of nature.

Red sea said...

Nice video. Now get me a harpoon.

Anonymous said...

Well when you say bloodlust speak for yourself. Man has moved on from the caves. People don't wake up in the morning and say 'I have a bloodlust today' More and more people don't eat meat, maybe you say that they are wrong with them for not having natural instincts of bloodlust and hunting.

Anonymous said...

'I mean the desire to hunt and kill animals' I don't have that desire nor do most people.
Most people don't have a bloodlust and a desire to kill animals.

Tameside Citizen said...

Kraven asks an important question regarding the vile practice of Halal, I know of only one political party which has the courage to stand up to the PC Gestapo when it comes to raising the issue of and proposing the banning of Halal, and it is not one of the Lib, Lab or Con parties. He also misses the point as to why stunning is not used in the medieval practice or religious ritual slaughter. The reason is; the condemned beast is meant to suffer because it is a sacrifice. The practice is evil beyond imagination but as long as people are too petrified to talk about it - it will continue!

Kraven the Hunter said...

'Man has moved on from the caves', that's the point, meat and hunting played a fundamental part in that. Man should remember that and not abandon an essential part of his identity in favour of infantile verbiage and feminised fads like vegetarianism.
I didn't say most people had a bloodlust first thing in the morning, I said it was innate in man as a species and should be seen and respected as an essential part of our nature, history and evolutionary progress. In short there is no REASON to drop it and every REASON to keep it.
The 'anti's' stance appears to be 'Hunting bad, 'Not hunting good', a baseless and nonsensical position which comes from nothing more than uninformed individual's opinions of 'morality'.

Tameside Citizen said...

Here’s a dilemma for a lover of animals such as I; a few months ago I went for a holiday in the Lake District. I done all the usual things such as climbing Hellvellyn (something everyone should do at least once!), rowing across Windermere and sampling the delightful restaurants of Bowness. I also took time out to visit the woods around Thirlmere in the hope of seeing red squirrels in their natural habitat. The woods were magnificent, I was armed with my best Zeiss 10x56 binoculars, but sadly no red squirrels were to be found. This was disappointing because I don’t think I have ever seen a non captive red squirrel. The reason for this is they cannot compete with the imported North American grey squirrels. Grey squirrels outgun them in every department and the native red squirrels are facing total annihilation at the hands of the foreign invaders which will eventually lead to their total extinction in the wild.

I quite like grey squirrels. They are cheeky mites and posses great ingenuity when it comes to getting food. I once recorded a stand off in the garden between a large feral pigeon and a grey squirrel who were both after nuts which had fallen from the bird feeder. They circled each other as if they were ready to do battle but the pigeon won the day by flapping its wings and using them to shoe the squirrel away. But it would take more drastic action than that to remove grey squirrels from the woodlands of Britain, and that is exactly what is required if this foreign invader is to be defeated so the native red squirrel can reclaim its natural habitat.

If Britain’s native red squirrel is to ever make a comeback, the grey invaders must die. I would like to see red squirrels make a comeback, but I would not want to see grey squirrels massacred. This is my dilemma, and a dilemma I am grateful I do not have to solve.

Do we have any squirrel fanciers viewing this, and if so, would you agree with a massive cull of the grey squirrel population so the native red can once again flourish?

Taste the Blood of Dracula said...

What about people who like their steak with blood dripping out of it? And the Massai, an ancient and proud cattle rearing African tribe whose diet consists almost entirely of blood and milk, by all accounts they're extremely healthy.

Anonymous said...

TC, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs so just like the massive seal population in the Canadian Arctic a cull is necessary.

Tameside Citizen said...

I remember reading about the Kalahari bushmen of Botswana who used to drink blood. Not my idea of a refreshing drink, but if I lived a nomadic lifestyle in an arid desert I dare say I could get used to it. These people live with nature and hunt (or used to before they forbidden) in a sustainable way. We in the West have done it (hunting and cultivating cattle to produce meat) on an industrial scale which removes nature from the equation and leads to nightmare diseases such as BSE.

Before anyone wretches at the thought of tribes people drinking blood, ask yourself if you have ever eaten black pudding, because there is very little difference between drinking blood and eating black pudding. If you know what black pudding is made from you will know where I am coming from.

Anonymous said...

All the same person

Red in tooth and claw
Captain Ahab
Kraven the Hunter
Taste the Blood of Dracula

Anonymous said...

Sorry but I don't have a Bloodlust for hunting. Thank God I don't.

Roy West said...

Free me (anti-circus)

own goal said...

OK Tom I get your point you stick to the bin collections the car parking issue and your council tax points just like you did in Newton and Denton.
The Labour party don't need to work all that hard with experts like you and the teams you had out on the above elections.

Tom Hatton said...

own goal - so you propose that the if the Tories banged on about fox hunting they'd be addressing the concerns of people in Tameside? WTF?! I know - let's also protest about the compulsory EID tags for sheep and the declining prices of arable crops. I'm being silly now, but my point still stands.

labour for a better britain said...

Tom, Tory support of fox hunting is an absolute vote loser. I did not know the Etonion toff - Camoron was a fox hunter. Please advertise this fact in your election literature.

Tom Hatton said...

Cameron doesn't mention it on purpose. however, I must state he's not been foxhunting for around four years.

Also, it's actually not a vote loser. In Tameside it might have little relevance and as such people would base their voting intentions on an issue which they see as insignificant. Okay, the staunch class-warriors (like Cllr Taylor) might get a little wet over getting one up on the gentry but it's a silly law made by silly people - i think the public can see that.

Look, if the Sun can support then it's clearly not unpopular.

Tom Hatton said...

...people would *not*....

Sorry.

Shot through the other foot said...

My point still stands Roy and his team of winners must love you,keep it up lad your one of the best recruiting officers for the Labour party

Anonymous said...

This is what I dont get.

Its OK to hunt with dogs, badger bate, beat seals with a club and eat red meat but Halal is a vicious crime. Me thinks the objection to Halal has nothing to do with the animal, just the slaughterman.

When does the fox, badger, rabbit or seal get the electric shock!

Tom Hatton said...

'Roy and his team of winners' - That's fantasy and laughable.

Tom Hatton said...

Anonymous - the electric shock is for livestock. I'd love for it to be extended to foxes but alas they don't walk up to in a docile fashion and let you shock them. in fact, they do the opposite and run hell for leather (thus meaning a gun is unreliable)!

Door knocker said...

Laughable is it Tom can you explain the recent disasters for the Tories in Denton and Newton?
Roy's done 30 years now leading the Labour group in power the most successful group in the country,Tory councilors have been been removed from all wards in the thirty years.
Tameside council is amongst the best performing councils in the country maybe that's why known Tories go out and vote Labour in local elections, a regular opinion given to Labour canvassers in both by elections,had you canvassed in any of them you would have found this out.
The successful labour campaign team will now move on into Werneth and Staly south for a bit of serious campaigning,toilet rolls at Morrison's are buy one get one free your candidates in these wards will need extra.

Tom Hatton said...

Door knocker. I can explain the recent 'disasters' (your words, not mine) of Newton and Denton NE. The former became a BNP issue and in an attempt to keep the fascists out many people swapped their party allegiances and voted for Labour. Of course, I'm not an expert in psephology but that's my analysis. With Denton NE, the Tory vote failed to come out and Labour managed to persuade their core group of the possessed and deluded to get to the polling stations (I think somebody else made that point earlier in the thread). Also, it's worth noting that byelections by their very nature produce results which would not reflect accurately what would happen at an all-out election.

Next year's elections are going to be extremely interesting - and believe me, it's not the Tories who are scared ;)

Anonymous said...

Tom you don't know anything about politics on the knock the Tories are shit at it in Tameside.

Swing to Labour said...

Tom, the "Tory vote failed to come out" excuse would be valid if the turnout had also fallen. The turnout was actually higher than the local elections in 2006, 2007 and 2008 when the Tory vote each time was much higher than the pathetic 660 votes you secured this time.

Begs the question also, if there are hundreds more actively voting Tories in Denton, just what do you need to do to get them out?

Your party threw everything at Denton NE. You ran a proper campaign. You are 20% ahead in the polls nationally. Not only should you have increased your vote here, you should have won the seat very easily.

You didn't. Your vote fell from almost 1,000 to 660, despite the actual numbers of people voting in the election increasing (virtually unheard of in a by-election when turnouts are usually lower than actual elections).

Tameside Tories need some real hard thinking about this one. There is no way of glossing over the fact it was a catastrophic failure when all the odds were in your favour - not Labour's.

For whom the bell tolls said...

Swing to Labour is correct, please don't think for one minute that Tom Hatton speaks with any authority for the Conservatives he is part of the old school gang who are sleep walking to another disaster in 2010.
When Sue Gillett is finished with these dinosaurs we will take over and run effective campaigns with good quality candidates who have real Tory values.

Stunned said...

Never mind Save the Whale - it's the Tameside Tories who need putting out of their misery. Someone pass the stun gun first to be humane!

Breaking News said...

International racist currently visiting Hyde. Hundreds of supporters cheering the racist in the streets. Listen to his vile racist rant here. More of this poison can be found here. His rants against "half brown crinky haired negroes' should see him arrested. Where is Trevor Phillips or Strength Through Diversity when you need them?

Tom Hatton said...

For Whom the Bell Tolls....I'm not going to rise to your bait - you're clearly not a Tory. There is no rift between an 'old school gang' and a band of youngsters with a desire to overturn the local hierarchy. Pure, and utter, fantasy.

Of course, you might be able to add credibility to your argument by revealing your identity? If not to the TC blog crowd, then to me at least?

NO HERO WORSHIP FOR RACISTS said...

No comments from you Tom on the international racist who is currently touring Hyde. Racism is racism, and surely all those guilty of spouting vicious racism such as this man should be condemned? Or is it one way traffic?

Tom Hatton said...

Absolutely, Muhammed Ali should be condemned for his remarks. They were childish.

TH for PM said...

You are a courageous young man Tom. Most people would be too frightened to say that and just take the easy option of hero worship. Until politicians break free from the false doctrine of political correctness, this nonsense will continue.

John will knocked in round 3 said...

Tom lad, when you have crown up you will see what the Tories did this year in Denton And you may just understand the politics of it all.
Liam Billington and Lady Knighton hijacked the Tory campaign and turned it into a circus, lots of longstanding members stayed at home disgusted at their antics and the split caused by several Tory members even before the campaign started was there for all to see.
Liam is almost joined at the hip now with Cllr Kelly, others are following you have lost control of the group its anarchy and guess who's rubbing their hands at all this.
There can only be one solution someone needs to take control and we will do it very soon.
Our team will fly like a butterfly and sting like a bee just like Ali did in his day.

Truth Seeker said...

You can't haddle the truth

blue waiting for change said...

Liam & Stacey would make great leaders for our party in Tameside. With Stacies good looks and Liam's sharp mind we would be unstoppable. Come on young gun - evict the relics who are holding us back.

Stacey's evil twin said...

Tom you're crackers.

John Bell has openly said Liam is mentally ill and that no Conservative's are to have anything to do with him.

Stacey et al are continuing to go against John's wishes. If this isn't a split I don't know what is.

Delivering a few poxy lealets in Tameside is certainly not going to create the landslide you so inaccurately predict.

We heard how things were different all in the Newton by-election, and then again in Denton NE how things were going to be different from Newton so why should anyone believe you now?

If I were you I spend less time trying to get information on splits in the Labour Party out of young members of the Labour Party and more time knocking on doors.

ps If Roy and his team aren't winners, I really don't know how you can describe the loosing streak of Tmaeside's Consevatives.

Tom Hatton said...

Are we still going on about this supposed split.....

Red in Tooth and Claw said...

Kraven is not me.

I.O.O.B. said...

Anonymous, re Halal,
fox hunting has been proven to be the best, quickest and most painless way of despatching rural vermin. It is also a valuable part of the history and fabric of the British countryside. The foxes will be killed in other more painful ways, wounded by shooting, poisoned, snared etc. Banning foxhunting (it's done every day as the 'ban' is unenforcable) would simply put even more people out of work in the middle of a recession.
Badger baiting is not OK, it's rightly illegal. Seal culling is carried out under licence as a necessary part of controlling the burgeoning seal population. Eating red meat is OK unless anyone can supply a reason why not.
Halal is a deliberately cruel, sadistic and painful way of killing animals based on ancient foreign mumbo jumbo and introduces a two tier legal system where religious slaughtermen are exempt from animal cruelty laws applied to British slaughtermen, an utterly unfair, unjustified and unsustainable situation, and a recipe for chaos, conflict and division.

Strength through Diversity said...

We live in a harmonious multicultural society. The racists are just using the halal argument to isolate the Muslim community and cause division. Halal is not crual or it would be banned. Do not fall for Nazi lies.

Nationalist said...

Explain how cutting an animal's throat while it is still alive is not cruel. Pre-stunning is a legal requirement in Britain because every official investigation has proved it massively reduces pain and suffering to the animal. Why should ANY group be exempt from a British law that applies to everyone else.

One Britain said...

They should assimilate or go home.

Anonymous said...

STD, there's plenty of cheap property for sale in heavily 'enriched' parts of Britain, why don't you move there? You'll be alright until they cross the 20-25% population barrier. That's when they start putting shit through your letterbox.

Black/White and proud said...

STD, what's your view on the massively disproportionate amount of black on white rape? Or don't you care about women's rights and safety.

duki kid said...

The bnp are more desperate than I thought. They are featuring whacko West,s video on there main page of there website. this means ahe must have been telling the truth about him running griffins election campaign even though they denied it at the time. have a look http://bnp.org.uk/

Anonymous said...

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable

Anonymous said...

only as long as you keep insisting there is no split...

Conservative PM for 2010 said...

I can assure you sir that there is no split and we have full faith in Cllr Bell.

Blue Moon said...

Well said Cllr Bell! Keep those youngsters out and there'll be no split. They were the problem all along bringing their new fangled ideas like engaging with the voters and actively campaigning to win. That will never do. What next? Taking seats from Labour. Not on you watch.

Conservative PM for 2010 said...

You underestimate us and you are way out of touch with national opinion. You may have won two by-elections by flooding the wards with activists, but wait until the council elections next year when you will swept away locally and nationally. Bring it on!

Blue was the colour said...

Britain is on the verge of massive public spending cuts. David Cameron has promised to maintain spending on only the NHS and the foreign aid budget. If he thinks the latter is a vote winner he's even more massively out of touch than he appears.

Anonymous said...

Conservative PM for 2010 - you say wait until the next local elections; then what? Your depleted band of no-hopers will either be spread too thinly across the borough to make one jot of difference in the Council elections, or they will be pulled off to places like Cheadle, High Peak, Bolton West, Bury North and South etc for the General Election. Tameside Tories' are deadbeats destined forever to be a poor opposition in these parts, and you know it.

Labour Out. said...

Labour will lose seats in Tameside next May. But if the Tories don't get their act together it'll be a lot less than it should. At least Purnell will be going, unless people are stupid enough to vote for someone who defrauded and stole from them.

Anonymous said...

I bet Purnell will stay. There's no way Staly and Hyde will be anything other than Labour. The Labour voters will be out there voting in force as they always do. Maybe reluctantly, but they will be out there voting. The Torys and Liberals haven't even got a parliamentary candidate in place yet. They will spend the next few months playing catch up. As for council seats, the higher turnout assuming national and local polls on the same day will see Labour hold most seats comfortably.

Anonymous said...

I see Tameside Eye is back up. Keep your eyes peeled for some cracking stories.

curious cookie said...

Hey Liam, if you were leader of the Tory group in Tameside what would you do that John Berll fails to when it comes to reviving Tory fortunes in Tameside?