Under the British voting system of first-past-the-post it is hard for extremists to get elected.
To live in democracy means to allow extremist parties to exist and field candidates - paradoxically even those parties which seek to destroy the democratic system they exploit. That does not mean that the system should not be rigged in their favour.
One check on extremist parties growing is that we have a system of one person, one vote. If someone wants to indulge themselves by voting for an extremist with little chance of election then they have used up their vote. They are not then able to have another vote to cast for a candidate with a greater chance of winning. That is the voting system of first-past-the-post with which we are all so familiar in this country - and indeed across the world in so many other places that have followed our democratic model.
However on May 5 a referendum is taking place on changing our voting system to the Alternative Vote. That would mean that supporters of fringe parties such as Respect or the BNP would have their votes counted several times, not just once. Read more: Daily Mail
This type of insane scaremongering will actually harm the NO campaign in my opinion. I am voting no in the referendum and anyone with a modicum of common sense would be advised to do likewise. Tameside Citizen
21 comments:
'BNP meltdown' Please re-post on the now off topic Conservative leaflet article. If you start with that here the AV system will not get debated as discussion will rapidly veer off course and end up as a name calling competition.
Well said TC bloody Taylor again.
Don't know much about AV.
Be interested to know from someone, that knows what they're talking about.
AV is an outdated, unfair and unrepresentative system used only by Australia, Papua New Guinea and Fiji. The fairest system by far is List PR used by nearly 70 countries. This translates the exact proportion of votes for each party into exactly the same proportion of representatives in parliament. Guess why the main parties don't want it.
The marginals actually stand less chance of getting in under the AV system due to the fact that the outsiders at the polls will be the ones who have their votes distributed among the winning candidates. It has taken a long time to develop and refine this new system so that voters actually think they have a real choice, all the while giving them the same choice as they have now. Under the present system if you vote for one of the marginal parties your vote stays with that party. Now under the new system a vote for the BNP of UKIP for instance could actually end up as a vote for liebour or the Torys. The elite has spent the last 50 or so years commiting treason, fraud and crimes against humanity to aid the destruction of these lands and they are not going to give it all up by giving the British people a democratic fair ballot. It is not AV we need it is a political revolution to bring down the treasonous scum in power, they need to be brought to justice and hung for treason. Until then we will never see a fair or democratic election in this country
Griffin looks bloody awful in that picture.
List PR is the fairest solution, Yes it would benefit the BNP and Greens as well as UKIP. That is why it is not being offered.
If the no to AV campaign wins, all debate and chance of change will be lost for at least 20 years. The three failed old parties will just say there is no appetite for change.
If the Yes side wins,people will see the absurdities with the system and we may actually end up with list PR.
I will be voting yes.
The problem with list PR are the people who pick the list. You end up with the carpet baggers, the chosen ones, being installed at the top of the list that they are most likely to get significant votes. Thats how we got Griffin as an MEP, List PR.
Imagine List PR in Tameside with West at the top of the BNP list.
When I think about that I cant bring myself to vote yes
We know better than most the pitfalls of LPR, remember the Kilroy debacle? However it would force the parties to smarten up their internal democracy. It would force the stronger candidates up the list, and parties would be careful to keep the nutters off the list.
List PR is the best system, however the only route to it is through AV.
Anonymous, so you're against what is indisputably the fairest system, ListPR, because parties or people you don't like might get elected. You're a pure fascist.
Good arguments put forward by both UKIP and John Smith. The system we have now is incredibly unfair and the AV system is arguably even worse. I agree with UKIP to a point that things may have to get worse before they get better, the only problem with this theory is UKIP is granting the electorate with more credit than they are actually due.
As we know from bitter experience we have an electorate who often do not turn out to vote and when they do they vote for parties who have led them into illegal wars, flooded the country with third world economic migrants and sold us out to the EU.
The majority of the people who voted for the above were opposed to illegal wars, immigration and loss of sovereignty to unelected EU commissars however the ones who could be bothered to vote were totally mesmerised by the glitzy TV ‘leaders debates and like obedient and subservient sheep they went out en-masse and voted for parties who didn’t represent many of their strongest views.
List PR is undoubtedly the fairest system where everyone’s vote truly does count but as the infamous Champaign Socialist from London - Ken Livingstone once said “if voting actually changed anything they would abolish it”. A truer word was never said!
Do me a favour.
Ukip making good points. When it comes to his own election campaign,
He's nowhere to be seen.
He shows contempt for the voters by doing nothing.
Talk about nutters and time wasters.
He's no interest in elections and local folk.
I disagree, I think UKIP made his point very well. Let’s not have this debate turn into another personal insult contest. If you have anything disparaging to say about an individual you could add it onto the item below about the Conservative leaflet. After all that item has well over 100 comments not related to the topic in hand.
I wonder what ordinary Tameside citizens will make of the comments section on this blog when they stumble upon us? And believe me lots of people visit this blog as a result of pure chance when looking for something else.
People who post using known ID’s should bear in mind that the general public are looking in and those of you who stand for election should remember that many of these people will be voters.
Ask yourself if you would be happy to put on an election leaflet what you write on the comments section of this blog.
Good point on the insults question.
But the Ukip guy has no interest in local elections.
Actions speak loader that words. He's ok on here ranting on, but where it's more important he's nowhere to be seen.
This point you make here
'Ask yourself if you would be happy to put on an election leaflet what you write on the comments section of this blog'
That's what happened when Ukip's comments were printed off this blog.
And used in anonymous leaflets in Dukinfield.
I wonder who put that out?
I'm going to form the Apathy Party (if I can be bothered) and confidently expect to win virtually every election held in the UK.
Whatever the rules, the game will be fixed to prevent the will of the people becoming law. It always will for smaller parties the best thing to do is to build up a core of supporters using small electoral success as a recruitment tool. Properly disciplined these members will carry out orders and maintain support even in the direst of times.
With enough members national protests can be staged to push for change, if sufficient change is not achieved then more persuasive methods can be used thus cutting through the paper barrier of false democracy.
The voting method is of marginal importance non theless knowing that the elite always know what they are doing I will vote no, they can only benefit otherwise it would not be on the cards.
Dear Sandra (Borough Solicitor)
Please can you keep an eye out this year in Dukinfield, in relation to this Labour, Councillors, conduct?
You may already beware that he was Interviewed Under Police Caution For Assault in 2010.
I'm sure, that, if this had been me hitting out at someone like that.
You would have been acting on the matter.
The fairest system is the list PR system, but those who argue that a vote against AV will be used by the establishment parties as "proof" of no desire for change are almost certainly correct.
The best thing to do is vote "yes" to AV but then continue to campaign fot List PR.
Anthony David Jones (Tonydj)
As the referendum for the AV voting system fast approaches it is becoming ever more obvious that the three main parties have colluded with each other on this long overdue electoral reform issue.
Up until Gordon Brown realised his discredited Government was on its way out few had even heard of this system. In his desperate attempt to cling to power he offered Nick Clegg a referendum on AV if he would throw in his lot with Labour.
Strangely David Cameron also offered this tit-bit to Clegg.
With the sniff of power going to his head Clegg of course ditched the LibDems long held demand for the more democratic Proportional Representation system.
PR is used in Scotland, Wales, the European Parliament and in more enlightened countries worldwide, yet Clegg accepted this referendum compromise from both Brown and Cameron. Why didn't he fight his corner for list PR?
Simple really and democracy has nothing to do with it, it wasn't on offer, it was either this or nothing!
Both Labour and the Conservatives are happy with the outdated but cosy first past the post system, they know that even under AV the LibDems will never cross the threshold of No10 so were content to throw this crumb at the hapless Clegg.
This pretence of voter reform was to halt the smaller parties, in particular the BNP and UKIP, from exerting any influence whatsoever.
Both the Yes and No camps use the BNP bogeyman as a reason to support or oppose AV.
Poll reform will give BNP voters more say at the ballot box bleats the NO campaigners! The YES campaign say it would make no difference, but both camps agree PR is not suitable because the BNP won two MEP's in the EU elections in 2009.
This is the truth of the matter, List PR really is one man one vote, it is the democratic will of the people, however distasteful it may be to the main parties!
Yet as it is our two party state dares to bang on about democracy to the Arab world, unbelievable!
Significant numbers of people have allowed themselves to become chronically dumbed down and/or apathetic. Look at the abysmal turnouts at virtually all elections. Chancers, spivs, and special interest groups have infested the democratic process which is in reality run by international money men who will ultimately decide how things go.
That's unless people wake up, get informed, get involved and take control back.
That's the biggest fear for the planners of 'new utopia.'
Le Bon, Gustave. The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind
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