To all those who should be thoroughly ashamed for allowing this national disgrace to exist in Tameside Greater Manchester.
Crimes against humanity do not only exist in Serbia, Africa or the Middle East, they exist on your own doorstep in the UK by deliberately ignoring the health damaging toxins which masses of public are being forced to daily ingest causing them Cancers, Heart Diseases, Lung Diseases, Dementia, Alzheimer’s, Asthma, Strokes and even harm to Foetus’s and the Facts are easily available below.
The UK Government has repeatedly been threatened with huge financial penalties for not complying with EEC Directives. The Dept of Health in their objectives never refer to Air Pollution and the thousands of deaths occurring in the UK each and every year.
Greater Manchester Councils who administrate million of peoples lives have deliberately acted with utter contempt for the AQMA designated localities where chronic air pollution has been authenticated does not attain Government targets regardless of years of knowing the problems exists.
Local and National Politicians in the Tameside area know the location is No1 in the UK for Heart Diseases, its also No1 in the UK for increasing traffic volumes, life spans are far lower than other regions, and the Air Pollution is amongst the worst regardless of the Councils manipulations and deceptions linked to air pollution monitoring to hide the reality facts.
Councils, Local Heath Authorities and Directors of Public Health in the region all declare their prime objectives are smoking, drinking, obesity and life styles without any references whatsoever to Air Pollution as being a serious hazard to peoples health, in other words they are burying the facts along with the dead.
The reports denoted below confirm conclusively that millions die each year in the world each years (WHO)including many thousands in the UK, who are not all smoking, becoming obese, and drinking, but simply breathing to exist.
Clean Air is a basic Human Right, yet as an example in the location mentioned above well in excess of 350,000 daily traffic volumes converge and mostly stop/start at an interchange close to family homes, and seeing that the damage to health from pollution sources affects a minimum of a 500 metre radius, which in this case is involves almost 47,000 people in a compact urban location.
Anyone of the recipients of this Email cannot excuse this situation and do nothing about the horrendous diseases being experienced, and the decision to take no interest and discard the facts offered indicates a complicity in this national scandal.
Many of these Email recipients have previously been advised of these seriously dangerous facts over recent years, and preferred to ignore the plight of many thousands, which includes babies and infants, and even those sections of our society are being abandoned by all those already knowing the facts which alone is deliberate criminal neglect.
My accusations are based on Epidemiological Facts /Data/and Reports, and those directly involved in this massive scandal of Public Health gross negligence and avoidance should consider their positions and take stock of their own consciences.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi's prophetic words of wisdom are highly relevant in this case except for those "many thousands who did not win" and are now buried and cremated whilst nothing has been done to alleviate the thousands of future deaths.
Scoff if you will, discard the facts which is your decision, but do not ridicule or excuse what has/is and will continue occurring even now with TMBC continuing to even create large extra volumes of traffic with many HGV`s included into a seriously depleted and destroyed environment which I could prove without the slightest doubt after 14 years of establishing the facts.
Locations of air quality monitoring stations in Tameside
I have just stumbled upon this recent report on the BBC News website which does appear to validate many of the claims put forward by Mr Hall and others with regards to traffic pollution causing serious health problems. Tameside Citizen
176 comments:
There is no question that TMBC's obsession with traffic 'calming' has vastly increased the number of times vehicles decelerate and accelerate. This has massively increased pollution, noise and unnecessary delay.
There must be a significant number of occupants of ambulance emergency cases who have died or had their conditions worsened beacause of all these artificially created obstructions.
yes lets shut what few factory down we have left ? and may be if we didnt nearly double the population with foreigners we may all be breathing better air
No, keep the factories open and stop all but essential immigration. In the last 12 months a third of a million jobs have gone to foreigners in Britain. The work cheap (usually for an agency) ask no questions kind.
More pseudo science made up bullsh*t from Hall.
When next TC, a 'guest article' from the Dukinfield pest?
Environmental Department said...
More pseudo science made up bullsh*t from Hall.
These a just of the few other liars,scoundrals,and idiots who I happen to agree with.
Read them before you ridicule yourself with denials and insulting references,but then prove then wrong.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/jul/12/air-quality-health-crisis
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jul/04/air-quality-pollution-campaign-eu-uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/10/uk-cities-polluting-traffic
http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2011/06/09/air-quality/
http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/health-topics/environment-and-health/air-quality/facts-and-figures
http://www.lbl.gov/Education/ELSI/Frames/pollution-health-effects-f.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/painter/2010-08-09-yourhealth09_ST_N.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/jul/12/air-quality-health-crisis
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jul/04/air-quality-pollution-campaign-eu-uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/10/uk-cities-polluting-traffic
http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2011/06/09/air-quality/
http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/health-topics/environment-and-health/air-quality/facts-and-figures
http://www.lbl.gov/Education/ELSI/Frames/pollution-health-effects-f.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/painter/2010-08-09-yourhealth09_ST_N.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/jul/12/air-quality-health-crisis
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jul/04/air-quality-pollution-campaign-eu-uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/10/uk-cities-polluting-traffic
http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2011/06/09/air-quality/
http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/health-topics/environment-and-health/air-quality/facts-and-figures
http://www.lbl.gov/Education/ELSI/Frames/pollution-health-effects-f.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/painter/2010-08-09-yourhealth09_ST_N.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/jul/13/air-pollution-uk-activism
http://www.envirotech-online.com/news/air-monitoring/6/breaking_news/eu_losing_patience_with_uk_over_air_quality/15972/
http://www.google.co.uk/alerts?t=1&q=UK+air+pollution+and+health&hl=en
Fancy slating these experts Environmental Department
J.Hall
And if you a top up try these Environmental Department.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14920170.900-french-smog-smothers-hundreds.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15621050.200-devil-in-the-diesel--lorries-belch-out-what-may-be-the-most.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15621100.300-lies-damned-lies--british-air-pollution-statistics-understate-the-threat-to-health.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14319381.100-drivers-can-damage-your-health.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13818751.800-deadly-urban-air.html
http://www.epa.sa.gov.au/environmental_info/air_quality/air_quality_and_health
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution#Effects_on_COPD
http://www.escapeproject.eu/
http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=EN_NEWS&ACTION=D&SESSION=&RCN=33151
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4283295.stm
J.Hall
which doesn't explain the relationship to heart disease as is claimed in the article or explain why residents of Denton West, where Hall claims the worst pollution to be, have relatively better health than the rest of Tameside.
This is always the problem when people force unconnected facts to support an unsustainable argument.
T.Y.Brow
your all eating to many of thoughs crappy kebabs
Anonymous
have relatively better health than the rest of Tameside.
Where is this reported ?
Whose report is it?
Date of report?
On what facts is the report based on?
Surely you can confirm the specific details from on where and which you create your blogs
instead of never substantiating any of your comments.
JH
how about this which you have been shown before from the independent Association of Public Health Observatories. It is a pdf on this very subject www.apho.org.uk/resource/view.aspx?RID=91955
Its a little inconvenient for your argument isn't it?
TY. Brow
I've read the references that Hall has quoted and cant find a cross reference to heart disease. If readers dont believe me pick one, say the bottom on from the BBC. Cut and paste in your browser and check for yourself.
Another work of fiction from Hall. Citing references that just dont support the claims. They look good though, make it look as though he has some points of reference.
Anonymous, Edinburgh University's Cardiovascular Research Dept issued a report YESTERDAY about the growing link between air pollution, namely diesel particulates, and heart disease. Congestion equals pollution equals an increase in health problems. That much is undisputable, consequently we should be pursuing measures to reduce congestion to an absolute mimimum. TMBC's approach to traffic,i.e. cause as much delay as possible, is the diametric opposite.
Herbert Schweiger RIP.
I like the 24/7 'School Zones', which are only relevant two and a half hours a day Monday to Friday, and not at all at weekends or school holidays. Genius.
Anonymous said...
how about this which you have been shown before from the independent Association of Public Health Observatories. It is a pdf on this very subject www.apho.org.uk/resource/view.aspx?RID=91955
You really don`t understand much do you.
TMBC inputs
PCT inputs
The DoH receive the manipulated
info because TMBC and the PCT never ever refer,mention,or want to know about Air Pollution and bingo it goes back to TMBC who release it.
The Dept of Health does not refer to Air Pollution it never mentions it in its declared objectives,nor does our PCT Health Officials.refer to it in any of their objectives.
If you persist in producing rubbish
don`t expect replies to your slavish references to a TMBC document from Council who in reality distorts,manipulates,deceives,
concocts,and lies as a constant feature of their administration.
The Public Inquiry Chair gave them 2 years of numerous attempts and delays to rectify their seriously flawed evidence,time and again it was declared not fit for purpose,the Highways Agency changed its top official who couldn`t handle the flawed evidence
and the final result was after two years both TMBC and the Highways Agency withdrew its concocted evidence in support of a ByPass
because it couldnt supply accurate
and not concocted evidence after £20 million had been spent on their
evidence presentation which became expensive toilet paper we all paid for.
The minutes of the PI were accurate,but you prefer to knock anything which exposes TMBC as
NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.
I wonder who you are representing and who is your employer,and who is pulling your strings to make you look stupid.
Cut the strings and trying to denounce the numerous experts who have concluded Air Pollution is a very serious issue concerning people`s health.
I reckon folk can see who you are representing and your on a sinking discredited ship.
Did you argue with the Beano and Dandy Editor once upon a time,besides which what`s your knowledge base and background or is that a secret like your preference to be always be ANONYMOUS
JH
Kevin Watkinson
I dont doubt that pollution affects health. An asthma sufferer myself I am well aware of the impact of pollutants. However, not on the heart as is claimed by Hall.
The reason Hall is trying to make this link is Tameside's appealing heart disease record which Hall is trying to use in his private crusade against the M67/M60 junction.
I am curious as to why your quoted source doesnt have the information you claim they released yesterday in either their news or publications on their website which is at this address - http://www.cvs.med.ed.ac.uk/
More fiction about heart disease and air pollutants, meanwhile the real issue about heart disease in Tameside passes on by.
J. Shepley
Hally boy. Your story is changing! dropped the heart disease link now have you. Im glad you accept your "guest article" is useless.
What a shame for you that people actually took you up on your cited references and discovered they didnt say what you claimed.
I guess Anon is right, big pinch of salt required
John Hall, tell us why DW has the lowest number of coronary cases in the borough yet it is closest to the M60/M67 junction which you say brings pollution and illness to the borough?
So what are you saying Anon @ 00.09?
Hell has no fury like a Hally scorned?
Yes, Hally lost the plot when he was refused a job with TMBC.
J.Shepley, try the Daily Mail website, there was a feature on Edinburgh University's Department for Cardiovascular Research's report on the link between diesel particulates from vehicles, and heart disease yesterday.
If you don't doubt these particulates can harm asthma sufferers and you're not a scientist/doctor why do you doubt it can cause heart disease despite increasing evidence. Perhaps you just concoct 'fiction' to demonise those who question TMBC's failings.
As I understand it Hall is claiming manipulation of data because TMBC placed a pollution monitoring station where he didn't want it. But he fails to understand that station measures ambient non urban pollutant levels. His own photos show the station in Mottram so clearly TMBC are monitoring the levels there where traffic is high. In terms of Denton West having the highest life expectancy you only have to find a Tameside & Glossop PCT Annual report (and there are many on the web) to see Denton West life expectancy is 79 and Ashton St Peters is 72. I wonder what Hall has to say to the residents of other areas when he has the privilege of having a much longer life expectancy and yet harks on and on and on and on and on and on........
Ghandi also said
Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
Does everyone start to see the problem with Hall? You can't debate in a normal adult intelligent way with him.
Kevin Watkinson - I think what appears in the Daily Mail is hardly evidence of anything except their desire to sell newspapers. However, it doesnt quite say what is claimed. It actually says at the bottom of the article that scientists want to study IF there is a link between pollutants at heart attack.
You asked why I accept that pollutants and respiratory issues are connected? Its called scientific evidence.
Mr Hall - I find these suggestions that you are just a disgruntled job seeker a little distasteful, you may have a data protection claim if your information has been leaked.
J. Shepley
we given him the job he so desperately desired you
Yes, Hally lost the plot when he was refused a job with TMBC.
What job.come on what job,nutters
these are insane,scurrilous words
and open to libel charges.
Sandra Stewart should take serious note of these imposters purporting to be TMBC individuals because it shows the depths of insanity/filth.and outright lies the organisation behind such comments are now using.
What mentality deranged nutters are
being let loose to contradict the facts.
Me working for Roy Oldham/Steven Pleasant these past 30 years must rate as the joke of 2011.
However be more than careful nutters because you have now vastly over stepped every mark with your vitriolic bile and deliberate lies.
Ask Andrew Gwynne whether I would ever want to associate with the Councillors and Labour thugs in Tameside.
So anonymous nutters you are absolutely desperate now and Sandra Stewart should take very serious note of what is occuring in the name of TMBC because it has many implications for the whole of TMBC
Seems like when the Pub Bell rang out,they went home and lost their already totally discredited marbles
to utter such incredible tripe.
Anonymous comments from individuals of this ilk trying to scupper those who are decent,honourable,members of society will always try and scare off the honest folk in Tameside.
And the the gross lies are a sign of desperation.
JH
Thank you TC for putting that BBC article up. As J Shepley pointed out. The only independent scientific research available says "could" and not "does".
All that bluff and bluster from Hall pointing to research that doesn't support his claim was pointless. False claims only damage the authors credibility.
As I quoted from Ghandi
Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
This is Halls problem. He doesn't listen to any counter argument. He quotes from numerous articles, blog sites and distorts to his own end.
He still hasn't answered the question as to the life expectancy in his area being far superior to the rest of the borough. Listening to his rants just means that a proper debate on health issues in this country is missed.
Will TC come to Hall's rescue again by bumping this item down with more bird footage or will TC leave this article in place until Hall comes up with an answer?
Mr Hall
How come it's TMBC creating all this traffic and all these HGVs. Is it not us all that want to be more mobile and travel on public transport or have private vehicles. How does all that food we consume get transported around the country? Do we not want to live in a modern world or not. Life expectancy, of which you are privileged to live in a part of Tameside with the highest life expectancy levels, is clearly linked to affluence, the more affluent areas have higher life expectancies. If you study life expectancy in areas around the M25 with more vehicle movements that exist in Tameside you will find higher life expectancies. So we have higher levels in areas around the M25, higher levels in Denton West yet you expect us to listen to your rants rather than debate the real causes of these wide variances.
The spurious names associated with those disputing facts must be raising immense laughter across Tameside.
Switching identities from behind the TMBC bunkers trying to imply how big a group they are is absolutely hilarious.
The more they do it the many thousands in Tameside will become even more aware of the dross within TMBC and those closely linked.
Having distributed the facts to a multitude of experts and organisations in past days
the responses across the full spectrum of recipients has been
remarkably supportive and encouraging and the Tameside exposures have been classed as obscene,disgusting and appalling.
JH
Whose the next phantom poster ?
So Mr Hall
Pray tell us who has been supportive. Don't make wild claims like that without evidence. Who has been supportive???
the responses across the full spectrum of recipients has been
remarkably supportive and encouraging and the Tameside exposures have been classed as obscene,disgusting and appalling.
So Mr Hall. Tell us has been supportive and encouraging? Who has classed this as obscene, disgusting and appalling.
Other than you of course
I was having a talk with Mr West the other day about the bnp.
He told me that, no doubt the party was over in Tameside for the bnp.
They had no activists left at all in the nw region let alone Tameside. Mr west can be really pleasant when he wants to be.
Hope you don't mind me repeating what you told me on Astley street Mr West?
Come on, we've already got one obsessive on here with Hall. Don't lure West in too or Hall will get off the hook regarding the question he cannot answer about DW and coronary heart disease.
Why is it that Hall always pronounces that anyone who disagrees with him works for the council? What a bizarre notion. Its more likely that its people like me who think most councillors are self serving ne'er do wells that have chanced on an easy life.
However, that doesn't mean you can let foolish pseudo science claims, that do not stand up to any scrutiny, detract from the serious issue of heart disease in Tameside.
At the heart of this (excuse the pun)is Halls claim that Tameside being the worst place for heart disease in the country is a consequence of the M67/M60 road junction. No evidence to support the claim and nor can there be. If air pollution had such an impact then the heart disease issue would be much worse in areas of considerable worse junction congestion. The M62/M602 junction with the Trafford Centre or central Stockport past the Pyramid or the M6 in Preston on the M1 past Sheffield or the M1 at Luton. Just examples of far worse traffic numbers and congestion than the M60/M67 junction.
Add to this the only real evidence produced on this blog under this subject heading that people in the vicinity of the M60/M67 junction actually have a better life expectancy than those that dont live in that vicinity and a huge irreparable hole appears in halls argument.
Perhaps that is why there is the distraction of who challenges his assertions are.
I agree with Anonymous. Why is it that Hall can't accept that normal educated people can come on this blog and challenge his outrageous statements. And if we do we somehow we all work for the council. There are many statements that Hall cannot substantiate and I have put at least 6 reasonable questions in the last week that he has not answered but just started his rant again. Mr Hall may well have something to offer to a debate on this subject but he is unable to.
Dear council worker if Nick Griffin wins the leadership contest next week, it's over.
Please get what I said straight.
The only way you can gain a grain of credibility is to cease using Anonymous manipulated postings and become men prepared to leave the safety of their barricades.
Which won`t happen and you know it.
Onto another exposure of TMBC now so don`t waste your time anymore.
You lost all creditability a month ago with stupid names and nothing other.
JH
Off have a great party time now,so don`t waste your effort.
Hall
Check this out. Page 23
http://www.tamesideandglossop.nhs.uk/upload/documents/corporate/annual%20reports/Public%20Health%20Report%202007-2008.pdf
Denton west life expectancy 78.5
Ashton St peters life expectancy 73.3
One has the M60/M67 junction. One doesn't. Can you guess which is which.
Hall appears defeated. Resorts to usual rants and sulks away.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi's prophetic words of wisdom are highly relevant in this case except for those "many thousands who did not win" and are now buried and cremated whilst nothing has been done to alleviate the thousands of future deaths.
Scoff if you will, discard the facts which is your decision, but do not ridicule or excuse what has/is and will continue occurring even now with TMBC continuing to even create large extra volumes of traffic with many HGV`s included into a seriously depleted and destroyed environment which I could prove without the slightest doubt after 14 years of establishing the facts.
So Mr Hall please name the people who have agreed with you on this one????
Come on Hally - names???????????
J.Shepley, '...the research, funded by The British Heart Foundation, showed that the tiny particles, and not the gases, impaired the function of blood vessels that control how blood is channelled to the body's organs.' What appeared in the Daily Mail was an account of the latest findings by Edinburgh University's Cardiovascular Research Department.
That's the 'scientific evidence' which will lead to further investigation. Can you demonstrate a report that shows diesel particulates are harmless?
'Particle traps are already being fitted retrospectively to public transport vehicles in the US to minimise the potential effects of pollution.'
'...there is strong evidence that it has an impact on the heart and blood vessels as well.'
The Daily Mail didn't make the research up, they just reported on it. Making things up is your department. Twice now, since I've already disproved your previous lie, that my previous comment pointing out the University's research was 'fiction'.
It doesn't say they want to study whether there is a link between pollutants and heart attacks, it says they are trying to isolate which specific chemicals are causing the problem and find the best way to remove them.
Traffic pollution equals health problems of varying type and severity.
What can be done about traffic volumes, in reality, is very limited unless we want to significantly adversely affect national prosperity, this is especially relevant in the current economic circumstances.
Traffic flow is a different matter, if it was made the priority as opposed to the current policy in Tameside of causing wilful, and virtually always unnecessary, obstruction and delay there would be a massive reduction in decelerating and accdelerating traffic and consequently plummeting rates of vehicle emissions.
You are quite right Kevin but do not lose sight of the ultimate goal - a congestion charge.
They deliberately create traffic chaos so in the end a solution, which makes money for the councils, must be found and that solution is a pay as you drive congestion charge.
Just as the Irish voted no to the Euro in a referendum - but they still got it, we voted no to the C-Charge, and yes, we too will get it despite not wanting it.
As to relative life expectancies, one thing's for certain, if the M60/M67 bottleneck/abortion was resolved the level of vehicle pollution in that area would fall off a cliff and Tameside residents would benefit.
Kevin Watkinson
As to relative life expectancies, one thing's for certain, if the M60/M67 bottleneck/abortion was resolved the level of vehicle pollution in that area would fall off a cliff and Tameside residents would benefit.
Your point is valid and worry of further debate. However before becoming another J Hall just consider that the M60/ M67 junction is the responsibility of the Highways Agency. If you study the Greater Manchester Local Transport Plan you will see that TMBC, like you, would like to see that junction improved.
What is all this bullshit. Put 'heart disease traffic fumes' into a search engine. End of argument.
You're as mad as Hall
They clearly don't 'want' it that much as it's been that way for decades and as it falls within Tameside it's the Council's responsibility to apply maximum pressure to national bodies to sort it mout. The results, or total lack of them, show that they've failed.
Demonstrate how I could become 'another J. Hall'.
I wish a lot of you had one neck so I could get my hands round it.
Kevin Watkinson
They clearly don't 'want' it that much as it's been that way for decades and as it falls within Tameside it's the Council's responsibility to apply maximum pressure to national bodies to sort it mout. The results, or total lack of them, show that they've failed.
Demonstrate how I could become 'another J. Hall'.
You just have
Anonymous, Making a statement is not demonstrating it.
Supply specifics and reasoned argument, with reference to my comments, on how I could 'become another John Hall'.
Kevin
Enjoyed a great night with normal folk,and then noted the repeated dross offered to your postings.
To add to your explanation may I offer the following which is within many research documents and has already been confirmed across the globe.
The Vehicle Emissions and from Exhausts Brake drums and especially HGV`s etc produce large volumes of PM2.5 Particulates and being extremely tiny they lodge in peoples lung tissue without being able to be
discharged by coughing.They remain perpetually and from lung tissue they then progress into the blood stream and this is repeated as one breathes this form of air pollution.
Once in the blood stream they form "Free Radicals" which are an extremely sinister component originating from PM2.5 Particulates.
Then once in human organs they commence degenerating the human organs basic structure,leading to the various diseases I have already indicated.
Should you wish to collate such information the world`s best research over the past 12 years
has and is being carried out in America and where they release with honesty reports which the UK media sometimes reports on,as does the UK Lancet medical journal.
Very few if any media reports relating to the dangers of air pollution originate from the UK
The Uk prefer to considerably restrict research data and if you check the UK main research facilities you will find the Government Departments such as DEFRA are constant providers of financial grants to research units
Hence few essential results or your funding is at risk.
This is not heresy and you can easily track this method through.
Sir David King the UK`s previous Head of Science up to 3 years ago and who corresponded with me over a period of several years,stated it was essential for people like myself to persevere with campaigning because the issue was extremely serious and needed in-depth investigation.
I also communicated regularly with the Royal Commission on Air Pollution members,who kindly sent me their reports which they had forwarded to the Blair Government regularly.very highly respected members in the scientific world
were constantly indicated their considerable concern at the Governments refusal to implement actions required.
In recent months the Royal Commission on Air Pollution was dismantled,and no longer exists which certainly proves a point concerning the total disregard for
leading Epidemiological and Scientific facts.
Two years ago it was proved that the Placenta within pregnant mothers could be breached,whereas it was always considered a protective area for Foetus`s therefore such toxins can breach the placenta and enter the Foetus causing obvious problems.
JH
so then Hall. You have dropped your ludicrous claim that Tameside's poor Heart Disease stats are due to the M60/M67 junction.
I hope TC doesn't delete this entire thread as it rather demonstrates that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
An apology may be appropriate but probably not forthcoming.
J. Shepley
J.Shepley, an apology should be forthcoming from you, for stating my reference to the Edinburgh University report on the links between diesel particulates and heart disease was 'fiction'.
I don't know exactly, how accurate Mr Hall's specifics are on the M60/M67 logjam, but there is a growing amount of scientific evidence of the link between diesel fumes in particular, and heart disease. Hundreds of thousands of stationary or slowly moving vehicles at one of the worst junctions in Europe must emit huge amounts of pollution and particles of ALL kinds.
The responsibility for not resolving the severe traffic problems at this junction lie largely with Tameside Council, because it is the residents THEY are responsible for who have suffered most from the consequences.
That's the problem with environmental nuts like Hall, they can never back up their wild claims with accurate date. It's the same with the phoney global warming clique.
Kevin Watkinson said
The responsibility for not resolving the severe traffic problems at this junction lie largely with Tameside Council
So again Mr Watkinson, whilst your point about traffic at the M60/M67 junction (and clearly you are one of the many motorists using it) is valid you ignore a previuos post that clearly states the responsibility for this junction is the Highways Agency. You, like Hall, want to criticize TMBC regardless of the facts.
Mr Watkinson said
There is no question that TMBC's obsession with traffic 'calming' has vastly increased the number of times vehicles decelerate and accelerate. This has massively increased pollution, noise and unnecessary delay.
Can you please substantiate this wild accusation that pollution, noise and unnecessary delay has been MASSIVELY increased by TMBC. I think you will find that many residents in areas of traffic calming are pleased that traffic is slowed down. Maybe you are one of the motorists who are forced to reduce their speed below the legal limit that you should be travelling at. I personally do not find traffic calming too much of a hinderance but then I'm a reasonable driver.
Kevin Watkinson can you tell us what vehciles you drive? I don't want detail as that is your business but do you drive the most environmentally friendly vehicle? If you drive a commercial vehicle is this to the best Euro standard? If you drive for a company have you demanded of yuor employer that they upgrade the vehicles? It is easy to blame the authorities, whoever they may be, but we all have to take some responsibility if vehicle emissions are indeed a contributor to ill health.
Perhaps the previous following words of Andrew Gwynne MP in the local press should be reflected on when he was a Denton Councillor and the
amazing reversable stance after he became an MP when the Government moved boundaries and gave him Reddish to boost his Labour Vote.
I quote
"A Denton Councillor has slammed new traffic plans as absolutely outrageous and warned they could mean even more congestion at one of the busiest round-abouts IN THE NORTH WEST
The Denton round-about is already at capacity and this will not only increase traffic but add to the pollution in the area said Councillor Gwynne ,he continued
The SEMMMS report even highlights the interchange is one of the most congested in the whole study area,its the number one hotspot in the borough,an accident black spot and severely congested ,there are improvements needed here..
But then after becoming an MP along with Purnell,Pendry and Oldham leading the Mottram ByPass Charge,he forsook his Denton/Audenshaw Constituents and sent a response to someone in the Sheffield area
outside his House of Commons rulings stating "unfortunately on this occasion I believe that the plans to build a bypass(mottram) should go ahead.
what the DfT/Highways Agency stated in their evidence was that with the ByPass increased traffic would result on the M67 onto the M60.So obviously increasing the pollution in an existing AQMA
location which had already been confirmed as beyond Government pollution targets and which should be addressed.
So here we have a politician who forsakes thousands of his constituents as did the 3 local Labour Councillors (we follow the leader) who already were in an environmentally serious deprived location and was
content behind the scenes to support thousands more vehicles,with many added HGV`s straight into his constituency resulting from the Mottram ByPass.
So here we have a politician who typically speaks with a forked tongue whilst completely abandoning his Constituents environmental problems.
In 2003 The Manchester Evening News carried out an investigation and stated Environmental chiefs accross Greater Manchester to unveil a blueprint to slash air pollution from traffic,homes and industry,and by September 2003 will publish a conurbation wide action plan by September 2003,because the document which has been in the pipeline for more than two years (2001)
The MEN`s investigations showed that dangerous pollutants had risen by up to 50% in the past 5 years,50% of emmissions come from traffic,and 38% from heavy goods vehicles alone.
Other Boroughs increases were indicated but Not Tameside,but why should they being that there`s has been deliberately stuffed away up Two Trees Lane overlooking a large expense of open land continuing to the Penines,and thats total blatant deception by TMBC and its Councillors.How disgusting that the local PCT removed tiny financial aid to the extremely popular group who have various Lung conditions in Hyde/Denton and who suffer considerably from COPD,Bronchitis Ashtma,and other Lung problems, restricting their lives considerably.What bloody cynical contempt these organisations have for Tamesiders who they have actually created such problems for.
I have all these Facts ,statements and press releases as I put this item for blogging,so lets see if the disgusting callous cretins who dispute all air pollution details offer again their vitiolic dross,or maybe they should check with "one" of their puppet masters Andrew Gwynne MP.lets also hear from opposition Councillors who read TC why not ??
JH
JH. you are ranting again. The air pollution monitoring station at Two Trees is monitoring ambient urban levels. Why would TMBC put a station that is designed to inform on ambient levels, anywhere where you might want to put it. And you had better check on the term 'cretin' before using it. Are you not capable of debate without resorting to abuse.
Mr Hall. This blog site is about debating issues. Debate is about discussing / arguing about opposing opinion. Not about abuse as many of your contributions contain.
You appear repeatedly to avoid answering the question as to the longer life expectancy in your area. This is because you know it has nothing to do with traffic and therefore it does not suit your purpose or your argument.
You avoided the question yesterday about the M25 and other major junctions so here's some facts about the M25/M4 junction which is also within a mile or so of Heathrow, one of the worlds largest airports. The population of West Drayton who live in this area have a life expectancy of 74.9 years which is far better than some areas of Tameside who do not live close to major traffic junctions. Again this points to life expectancy being a little more complex than would suit your argument. So come on and join in the debate by all means but cut out the insults and come up with reasoned arguments.
K Watkinson
http://www.hse.gov.uk/workplacetransport/speed.htm
Funny how the HSE also endorse the use of speed humps etc to slow traffic and motorists. Another organisation for you blame maybe?
Mr Hall. This blog site is about debating issues. Debate is about discussing / arguing about opposing opinion. Not about abuse as many of your contributions contain.
Address those Anonymous individuals
who started the attacks and abuse
and I am not accepting such terminology without dishing some back.
I do not utilise such comments towards any reasonable members of the public but we do not have that situation which I hope you will observe
JH
Anonymous Anonymous said...
JH. you are ranting again. The air pollution monitoring station at Two Trees is monitoring ambient urban levels. Why would TMBC put a station that is designed to inform on ambient levels, anywhere where you might want to put it.
The reason for monitoring stations is to denote the typical levels of pollution in Boroughs and if you don`t accept the devious act of sticking kit away from roads,in
an open rural landscape looking towards the Penines,when all other Gt Manchester Boroughs place them
near main roads and junctions.
Check the various grid references
and without any doubt whatsoever Tameside do not want reality facts
available because AQMA`s would increase.
JH
Mr Hall
I have studied the GreatAir Manchester site to understand the locations of monitoring stations throughout the GM area. Is it not clear to you that this is a clearly a GM wide monitoring programme and sites have been chosen to give the full picture across the region. For that reason the authorities have not all picked heavy traffic sites, nor have they all picked rural sites. I have no doubt that the Tameside site is of great value when comparing the various sites. It might not suit your purposes or argument but it seems reasonable to me. I have checked a few other major areas and they seem to to do a simliar thing. I don't think TMBC have ever hidden this fact have they??
Kevin
If the daily mail article stated what you claim it does I would be happy to say so, but it doesn't. If you click your "back" button and read the bbc headline it says "could" not "does". Ther is a big difference.
John shapley
Mr Watkinson
I took this quote from TMBC website
However, road humps are not widely used as a means of traffic calming, because they can cause severe problems for the fire, ambulance and bus services.
Seems they take a sensible approach despite your criticism.
Mr Hall
Here is the description of the Two Trees Monitoring site as shown on GreatAir Manchester website
Tameside Two Trees School
Pollutants monitored: CO, NO2, O3, PM10, SO2, NOx, NO
Site type: Urban
Description: This monitoring station is within a self-contained, air-conditioned housing situated within the grounds of Two Trees Secondary School. The site is two miles from the M60 to the west and a mile from the M67 to the north. The manifold inlet is at a height of approximately 2.5 metres. The surrounding area is generally open and comprised of suburban properties.
By comparison here is the description of the Trafford A56 station
Pollutants monitored: NO, NO2, NOx, PM10
Site type: Roadside Station
Description: The monitoring equipment is housed inside an air conditioned walk in enclosure that is located within 5 metres of the A56, Chester Road, Stretford, Manchester. The station is approximately 620 metres from Junction 7 on the M60 motorway and the sample inlet is approximately 2.5 metres high. Directly behind the monitoring station is a high rise block of apartments. The A56 has a 7 day average traffic flow of approximately 28000 cars per day.
Address: Stretford House Roadside Monitoring station, Stretford
One makes reference to 'Urban' one to 'Roadside' The idea is to get a full picture across the Greater Manchester area. I don't think therefore the following comments are valid;
'the devious act of sticking kit away'
'deliberately stuffed away'
Again Mr Hall you hope to throw certain facts onto this site and hope that a minority of people will believe you. There is only one person being deceptive about this issue and I'm afraid it is you
Anonymous said...
Mr Hall
Anonymous said
I have studied the GreatAir Manchester site to understand the locations of monitoring stations throughout the GM area.
JH replies
Perhaps you can tell me why the TMBC monitoring is not on the Government DEFRA daily pollution data sites when all the other Greater Manchester Boroughs are.
The variance shows when you look at the population map index,and the TMBC AQMA map then you will note the majority of Tamesiders live close by,near or adjacent to
roads/motorways
I have the AQMA Maps between 2002 onwards and if you find the Maps you will find a mass declared denoted air pollution localities along the M60/M67 where many thousands reside.
The Two Trees location speaks for itself as being deceptive and does not give a rational indication of the pollution ingested by the large majority of Tamesiders.
Therefore depriving a multitude of Tamesiders knowing the levels of actual toxins they ingest 47,000 residents of Audenshaw/Denton from the AQMA maps denote they ingest
levels of air pollution far in excess of the very few residents living near to the top of Two Trees
Lane.
According to the DofH and DEFRA,and Environmental Departments Councils have a specified obligation to inform the Electorate what they are ingesting and that definately does not occur in Tameside
Why did TMBC words stated (as copied on this site)theirs "are away" from Roads,(but not only roads in an open fields rural area.)
TC have the photographs of the Two Trees location and be assured that is not a common suburban location where thousands live.
Its vital you look at the AQMA Maps
JH
Mr Hall
Please note the following descriptions of pollution monitoring stations as taken from the GreatAir Manchester webite. the first refers to the Tameside Two Trees site and the second to the Trafford A56 site
Tameside Two Trees School
Pollutants monitored: CO, NO2, O3, PM10, SO2, NOx, NO
Site type: Urban
Description: This monitoring station is within a self-contained, air-conditioned housing situated within the grounds of Two Trees Secondary School. The site is two miles from the M60 to the west and a mile from the M67 to the north. The manifold inlet is at a height of approximately 2.5 metres. The surrounding area is generally open and comprised of suburban properties.
Trafford A56
Pollutants monitored: NO, NO2, NOx, PM10
Site type: Roadside Station
Description: The monitoring equipment is housed inside an air conditioned walk in enclosure that is located within 5 metres of the A56, Chester Road, Stretford, Manchester. The station is approximately 620 metres from Junction 7 on the M60 motorway and the sample inlet is approximately 2.5 metres high. Directly behind the monitoring station is a high rise block of apartments. The A56 has a 7 day average traffic flow of approximately 28000 cars per day.
One of the sites is an 'urban' site and one a 'roadside' site. Both give descriptions of the sites. The idea is that with other sites across the GM area a picture can be built up of pollutant levels.
Why then Mr Hall do you critise TMBC when they have fully described the site in the context of Greater Manchester. Why do you use terms like;
'devious act of sticking kit away'
'deliberately stuffed away'
You seem to make accusations on this site that cannot be substantiated and expect a minority of people to believe you and those that don't you throw insults. I think the only person being deceptive Mr Hall is you.
Headlines in the Tameside Advertiser
Thurs September 13th 2002.
WORST TRAFFIC JAMS IN THE COUNTRY.
because the Department of Transport report that I quote "Tameside Traffic is growing faster than anywhere else in the Country"
The Borough tops a league table of places with the highest increase in congestion at 38.6%. over the last decade,more than twice the national average of 16%
They are far ahead of other area`s taken from the Governments own statistics for traffic growth 1995-2005.
Roy Oldham in response blamed the area`a problems on its geographical position ?? and we have great amounts of cross Penine traffic.
Strange that he wanted even more with a Bypass to accommodate the HGV`s rat run.
JH
Please be assured that in a Public Inquiry if those anonymous posters were under cross examination,they would simply fold up,leave the room as did TMBC the Highways Agency dis at the ByPass Inquiry
JH
Anonymous states:
I think the only person being deceptive Mr Hall is you.
Concerning Air Pollution Monitoring Sites.
What total stupidity we have from these absolute irrational always Anonymous posters.
So the only one site you offer as a comparison is Trafford what about Manchester Piccadilly,what about the other Boroughs Road side positions for monitors ie Bury etc
and then chucking in the bit about
the TMBC site which you state is
2 MILES FROM THE M60 and 1 MILE FROM THE M67.
Surely quoting that alone blows your assertions about me as ridiculous
Two Trees site is at the rural site at the extremities of Tameside
Whilst the vast majority of Tamesiders live certainly within 1 mile of the M67 or the M60 or the A57 so the TMBC site its catering for a small minority of Tamesiders living in a sparse urban ??? area.
Nice one Anonymous
JH
Mr Hall
Once again yuo resort to insults. I think this is a sign of you being questioned and being made to look a bit inadequate in your argument. Of course I could have mentioned all the GM monitoring sites, some are urban, some roadside. I don't for one minute believe Tameside have put their site in this position to state this 'is our worst' area. Don't be ridiculous. Look at it across the whole conurbation.
As for Tameside having a heavy throughput of traffic whose fault is this? Do we blame Tameside for attracting business / visitors or do we also accept the argument that the geograhical position means that traffic will pass through the borough.
Come on Mr Hall you need to be a lot sharper. And you resorting to insults should shows the wider public that your arguments are totally flawed.
Mr Hall
You make reference to the Public Inquiry. You will know that this was an Inquiry against a HA scheme not a TMBC scheme. I sat in the Inquiry and watched your performance on occassions. It left a lot to be desired I can tell you
SH
How amazing are the persistant attack comments created by Anonymous people on me.
If the Facts are Fictitious how come I gave regular evidence,and cross examined most days for 3 months at the Waterside Park Public Inquiry and NOT ONE TMBC Official nor any of the many highly paid private advisor's and Lawyers for the Developers were able to discredit "any part of my evidence" over the 3 month period whichI attended daily.
Same applied at the Mottram ByPass PI,w3ith 400 pages of evidence,photograps,maps plus film
how many of the Lawyers,and Expert Witnesses and TMBC discredited my evidence provided (NONE),yet under cross examination I proved the Highways Agency and TMBC evidence
was not fit for purpose and was also proved by other people.
Read the Daily Transcripts of the Public Inquiries and note these comments are correct.
I would have been shot down in flames within minutes of issuing any distorted references at any time any day by Experts on all the Topics under scrutiny including TMBC Officials and their Legal Representatives.
Sorry to disappointment the Anonymous one`s,on TC but that`s what happened,whether you believe it or not,unless of course you read all the daily PI transcripts
and start recognising I do not offer stupid fictitious information
at all.However it appears that Anonymous posters on TC have far greater abilities in such circumstances.
Try it sometime day after day exposing the seriously flawed evidence by experts brought from all over the country to give evidence to support Waterside Park and Mottram ByPass plans.
I have already proven my evidence at such events,and the present ramblings on TC originating from obviously Labourite puppets put up
to defend TMBC would not last a day in such an arena as a Public Inquiry.
JH
JH
Insults again. Are you not capable of a debate without resorting to insults. The reason why you were 'not shot down in flames' was due to others at the Inquiry showing you respect and allowing you to give evidence. This mutual respect you do not show in that anyone who challenges your comments is somehow a 'Labourite puppet'. You seem totally incapable of normal debate.
You make reference to the Public Inquiry. You will know that this was an Inquiry against a HA scheme not a TMBC scheme. I sat in the Inquiry and watched your performance on occassions. It left a lot to be desired I can tell you
SH
Come on your being stupid.The HA was the ByPass
The TMBC was the Spur either of those could not continue withought each other.,Lot to be desired your talking nonsense and know it.
On occasions I note,how many.
JH
Mr Hall
Insults again. As you know the HA bypass fell not the spur. Yes the spur needed the bypass but we are talking process here and it was a HA scheme that was withdrawn the consequence being the spur could not go ahead.
I can resort to insults as well if yuo wish but prefer not to.
How come John Hall is so opposed to the by-pass when he lives nowhere near the proposed route?
He thinks it will attract more traffic onto the route and therefore through the M60 /M67 junction. He maybe right but he doesn't give a fig about the poor people of Mottram and Hollingworth who have to put up with the traffic right in front of their houses. The Bypass was to take this traffic away from the area but he just puts the argument of some major conspiracy around NETA. He doesn't criticse High Peak for over developing Glossop and piling more traffic onto the roads of Tameside. He is unable to see the more strategic approach. Just goes on about the location of a pollution monitoring station.
Ah, thanks anon. So in the mind of Hall all roads lead to the M60/M67 junction which then leads to death at an early age to all residents of Denton West. The problem being it doesn't because Denton West where the junction is located has a higher than Tameside average premature mortality rate but that doesnt suit Halls agenda so he ignores that small detail.
Hi B Warrington
Yes that about sums him up. He avoids that question like the plague. he just will not give a straight answer to the life expectancy in Denton West being the best in Tameside. And even refereneces to other major junctions M25/M4 as an example does not show a link to premature deaths. His argument is flawed and as we have seen in the last 7 days there are people who are happy to challenge his theories. When he doesn't like it he will resort to insults
I cannot understand why some people are claiming that Mr Hall's theories are not backed up by scientific facts.
All recent studies appear to confirm what Mr Hall has been saying for a long time is actually true and traffic pollution in general and diesel fumes in particular are a contributing factor when it comes to heart disease - and various forms of cancer.
I admit to owning a diesel car. When I bought it I was told it was a low emission model and very environmentally friendly, so much so the road tax is only £30 per year.
My understanding is that the real damage caused by polluting diesel engines mainly comes from tiny and highly carcinogenic particulates of partly unburned fuel. These particulates are supposed to be emitted from larger diesel engines as found in busses, lorries, trains and ships.
Or when Mr Hall is losing the argument he gets TC to comment for him
TC
No-one disputes the fact that vehicle pollutants may contribute to health issues but Hall, and presumably you, cannot comment on life expectancy in Denton West. His arguments go off in all directions.
My very unscientific reasoning as to why coronary heart disease is lower in Denton West than in some other parts of the borough is; Denton West is fairly affluent compared to some other parts of the borough and poverty will lead you to an early grave quicker than traffic pollution will.
I do not have access to the data regarding coronary heart disease across Tameside but I would wager a bet that the coronary disease hotspots are in the more deprived parts of the borough.
This does not mean that traffic pollution is ’off the hook’ just because of a simple anomaly because it could be argued that poverty is a greater factor when it comes to coronary disease, but traffic pollution, as health experts claim is still a significant factor.
Denton West may be a comparatively healthy part of the borough of Tameside - DESPITE the M67/M60 junction, but compare this location to a clean air environment in say Dorset miles away from any major roads and you will probably discover Denton West is a rather unhealthy place in relative terms.
This is not a scientifically based argument based on research but my opinion based on what I believe to be common sense.
TC
Well said. Can't argue with that.
It down to all them kebabs your all eating
Anonymous 1), are you saying TMBC bear NO reponsibility for failing to resolve the appalling gridlock at the M60/M67 junction that is within THEIR Borough. Demonstrate the steps they have taken, and the success they have had, to sort it out.
Anonymous 2), Decelerating and accelerating traffic, especially lorries, vans and buses, produces more emissions and noise than free flowing traffic. 'Can you please substantiate the wild accusation' that it doesn't.
Bob the Builder, can you tell us what sort of cave you live in whilst simultaneously using NONE of the planet's resources.
This discussion is about the behaviour and responsibilities of our locally elected representatives regarding traffic and pollution, and what THEY are doing, not so-called ethical 'Green' responsibilities of the individual.
Anonymous 3), so your argument is because the HSE like speed bumps they are automatically a good idea. This discussion is about Tameside Council disrupting traffic flow by instituting TOO MANY hindrances and obstructions such as speed bumps. No-one is saying there shouldn't be any. As previously demonstrated and referenced the Emergency Services don't like them and there is good and substantiated evidence (see previous postings and references) to prove that.
J.Shepley, so it's the 'headline' you're referring to now as opposed to 'the end of the article'. Read the article throughand the quotes from it posted then come back with your own references to substantiate that diesel fumes are, according to all the available scientific evidence, anything other than harmful, and anything that disproves or even suggests that they don't have an adverse effect on the heart. All the major experimentation conducted so far points in one direction.
As for the person quoting from the Tameside Council website about their supposed moderate and sensible approach to speed bumps. Them saying it and it being true aren't NECESSARILY the same thing.
'Quoting from the TMBC website', you might as well quote from the Quran's chapter on women's rights. Or Himmler's well known reference book, The Rights of Jews.
What a moron.
B Warrington said...
How come John Hall is so opposed to the by-pass when he lives nowhere near the proposed route?
Part 1
Blimey the House of Commons discredited Councillor with 4 paid undeclared interest, returns for more
What more confirmation does anyone need concerning the lack of knowledge
we have from Councillors.
What did the Highways written evidence state B.Warrington ???? you obviously never read as I suspected the thousands of pages entered as evidence for a ByPass/Spur.which indicates your views and assertions are based on
ignorance of the facts which doesn`t surprise me one bit.
The increase in traffic flows through the Peak District National Park was to be "increased",hence the Peak Park Officials,Barrister and Solicitors were there to oppose the scheme,or didn`t you know that bit ??
To make your lack of knowledge easier for you to understand the increased facility of a ByPass would attract far more HGV`s and Cars from the Yorkshire Region and the Ports according to the Highways Agency.The Expert witness for the HA/TMBC even stated it would attract far more people across the Penines from Sheffield to travel to the Trafford Centre,Manchester Football Grounds,and Manchester City Centre,and Ringway Airport,that`s a great piece of stated evidence Councillor to add to the existing declared problems,we shall look forward to that dumping of vehicles as well.
That extra volume would end up on the M67 directly into your Constituency should you forget!! the M60 Junction 24 where you don`t actually live in DW Councillor,so with already existing full capacity which your friend Andrew Gwynne declared through the Advertiser if you read his comments,and already the most congested area in the North West re MP Andrew Gwynne statement,plus the dclaration that the location already is a Government designated and TMBC designated area which DOES NOT MEET WITH GOVERNMENT POLLUTION TARGETS,how does all that add up in your brain,let me suggest the future reality to allow you to understand.
With the the Public Inquiry proposed scheme for the ByPass 1:Thousands more daily vehicle would end at Junction 24 M60,
more increases re Highways Agency.
2: More congestion at an Interchange already at saturation level,and already the most congested area in the North West(re Andrew Gwynne)
3:Funnily enough Councillor can you not understand that those facts from the Highways Agency and your very close friend A.Gwynne means we get even higher levels of air pollution toxins stuffed into your Constituents Lungs or do I have to make it more simple for you.
So what`s this nonsense "when he lives nowhere near the proposed route" eh Councillor,surely your incapability to suss just that bit out that we in DW,Denton,and Audenshaw get the "full impact" of the ByPass deposited at Junction 24 an already wrecked environment as indicated by TMBC AQMA Maps,your very close pal A Gwynne and the Highways Agency (The Experts) ?
Now you obvciously don`t give a s--- for what your thousands of Constituents are living with,nor do you mind them having more of the same to endure,in which case you should seriously consider ever again putting up in this Ward again if you are as appears from your comment not interested in the health and welfare of babies,children,adults and the elderly by backing more congestion,more vehicles and the resultant increase in Traffic Toxins.
If your going to attack me Councillor you really need to study more.
Part 2 Cont
I would also add that over recent years your official links with Tameside Hospital and your extremely close links officially and otherwise with its top Management over the years of mis-management and people`s deaths according to Coroners`s reports,you
never appeared to disclose your own involvement with the Hospital.
And as for for your backing for the Denton Rock Huge Illuminated Advertising Tower and your friend the instigator of the Tower who at the meeting referred to it as "A FOLLY" well perhaps anyone experiencing an accident to a vehicle or person at Junction 24 should send the claims direct to you because of your complicity in ensuring the monstrosity was built.
JH
(and be very very careful Councillor concerning my personal details,else the balloon will really rocket up.)
If the Government fails to substantially reduce immigration levels, England can expect unprecedented traffic congestion as the population soars to the highest level in its history.
Let's see the wood for the trees.
It's not just about congestion NCB it is about the council manipulating data to suit an agenda.
Thanks for the info on your councillor John. She sounds as trustworthy as environmental data from the council.
Nationally, Police, media and MPs are proving to be infested with corruption, self-seeking and in the case of MPs totally out of touch with realit, common sense and public opinion. The News International saga is driven by MPs wanting payback over the expenses scandal. Just today the Metropolitan Police Chief Paul Stephenson has quit whilst trumpeting his integrity, due to his links with News of The World hacking suspect Paul Wallis, including taking a £12000 spa break where Wallis was a PR consultant. Would you quit if you'd done nothing wrong, I wouldn't.
The whole establishment is rotten and ripe for a clearout. It is essential i9f Britain is to survive as a recognisable entity.
Have we seen any "smoking gun" evidence that TMBC is doctoring environmental data? I don't think so.
I eagerly await convincing proof.
eating crappy kebabs blocks your arterys coz thay put all sorts in them including kids
Anyone who eats kebabs etc and professes to care in the slightest about animal welfare is a hypocrite.
These establishments almost universally use Halal meat where the animal has its throat slit whilst fully conscious. Sheer barbabrism and banned in civilised places like Scandinavia. It's also a criminal offence NOT to stun an animal if you're a British slaughterman.
Preferential treatment, that results in God knows how much extra TOTALLY UNNECESSARY suffering, for a barbaric, foreign method. As opposed to prosecution for OUR OWN slaughtermen. Outrageous.
The people running this country are too gutless to act.
NCB said...
Have we seen any "smoking gun" evidence that TMBC is doctoring environmental data? I don't think so.
How many times does it take to get through with Anonymous individuals.
I will for the last time try and make it simple for those concerned,but if you still cannot get simply TOUGH
To tell the 47,000 in Denton/Audenshaw what their pollution types and levels are,which they are entitled to know being almost 25% of the whole Tameside Population they stick the Monitor away from roads 2 miles from the M60.1 mile from the M67
in an open rural landscape near the top of Two Trees Lane.well away from the bulk of Denton/Audenshaw homes
How does that relate to the actual TMBC AQMA Map for Denton/Audenshaw showing where pollution levels exceed all Government pollution targets.now that`s easy enough for most thinking people to take in.
But then TMBC because of the Public Inquiry re Mottram wanted to create an overstated pollution level on Mottram Moor how ? by sticking the Monitor 6-8 feet from the actual exhausts of vehicles.
Did they stick monitoring that close to vehicles in Denton/Audenshaw NO THEY DID NOT THEY REFUSED TO MONITOR THE POLLUTION CREATED IN THE ACTUAL TMBC Air Quality Management Area of Denton/Audenshaw an AQMA MAP designated location by TMBC and Government.
So Two Trees Site shows as not polluted which suggests the pollution in Denton/Audenshaw
far closer to the M67/M60 and where thousands live is almost nil.
AND THATS A DEVIOUS,DECEPTIVE AND CORRUPTION OF FACTS.
If you still cannot get it TOUGH.
I will not repeat the Facts any further so if all those anonymous one`s struggling to understand what a kid could comprehend that`s
their own problem in life.
JH
I will not waste anymore of my valuable time repeating simple explanations to people who the details are well beyond their comprehension,that`s their problem in their lives.
My case is now proven so if those concerned are incapable of reason or understanding blame yourselves not me.
SO TMBC/PCT ITS TIME YOU BEGAN RESPECTING THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF 47,000 COUNCIL TAX PAYERS BECAUSE IN PRACTICE YOU HAVE TREATED THEM ENVIRONMENTALLY LIKE SH-- FOR YEARS.
START NOW OR GIVE YOUR RESIGNATIONS IN STATING THE TRUTH, "WE ARE NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE".
JH
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TC
You need to close this down. JH is mad
Another anonymous anti-Hallite making unreasoned, groundless statements.
If he WAS just mad or a crank you'd ignore him.
NCB - lucky escape for the BNP.
Im wondering why Hall isn't calling TC a crank and having a go at what he says, after all, he is anonymous. Oh yes, that's why, he agrees with him.
One rule for Hall and another for everyone else.
Why is everybody arguing over details?
Instead we should be pushing for more alternative fuels. I believe it is BNP policy to push for healthier energy sources and this is a perfect time to demonstrate why we have to look after our environment. Healthy air, healthy race.
I don't care what Hall says. The man could not be taken seriously by anybody. I have many friends in the Denton West area. I'm looking to relocate there. Good access to Manchester and the Motorway network via M60 / M67 junction. Nice people (other than Hall and a couple of supporters). I don't care the Tameside pollution monitoring station is at Two Trees School. And if Mr Hall cared about the 47000 people of Denton and Audenshaw he wouldn't be so idiotic and offensive when posting his comments
Kevin Watkinson like John Hall avoids the direct questions. Lets hear what vehicles you drive and what efforts you are personally making to reduce vehicle emissions. Don't just balme the authorities do something yourself. I don't suppose you will come clean on the issue
John Hall
I asked you for 'smoking gun' evidence to show that TMBC is doctoring environmental data, but all you have done is provide CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence, which is not the same thing, is it? You seem to have a problem with the English language, as demonstrated by your appalling spelling, grammar and general presentation.
Does anyone get the impression BoB the Builder and NCB are the same person?
SS, the devil is in the detail and this is what politics is really about. Grandios schemes do not feature in the lives the little people. What matters to them are bread and butter issues which directly effects their daily lives, pollution and congestion both come under this heading.
Anon
I can tell you I am not the same person as NCB. There are many people who question the likes of Watkinson and Hall.
And no doubt there'll be others on this blog that will continue to question their theories
just found this which shows the cosy link with the council thick as thieves obviously and the council takes a grip on more organisations.
stalinists are alive and well in tameside boot the despots out.
In Tameside and Glossop public health is delivered through the Directorate of Public Health and Health Strategy. This Directorate was set up in 2007 and led by Melanie Sirotkin, the Director of Public Health and Health Strategy. This post is a joint appointment with Tameside MBC.
The role and scope of the Directorate are clear:
To be a strong advocate for improvements in Public Health
To commission all services from a public health perspective of securing best health gain.
Bob the Builder, everyone consumes energy. It's utterly impractical in terms of cost, and the law to govern, check or regulate meaningfully the energy consumption of millions of individuals. This debate is about what elected bodies can do about vehicle emissions and whether some of their policies are actually making things worse.
I'm not 'avoiding the question', but pointing out that you ARE trying to change the subject as a substitute for constructing a reasoned counter argument.
If the Council shifted its traffic priorities to traffic FLOW instead of wilful obstruction, and made a determined effort to pursue that policy, emissions from millions of vehicles in the Borough would be reduced.
Unlike individuals, elected governing bodies with power can act in a coordinated way and have huge effects. The proposal is that in Tameside they are failing in that responsibility re pollution from vehicles, not only that, their significant overuse of, and increase in, unnecessary 'calming' and obstructive measures actually increases emissions.
No-one will ever 'question your theories' because you've never put any theories, reasoned arguments or worthwhile points forward.
'I don't care what Hall says'
'I don't care about the Traffic Monnitoring Station at Two Trees School'. That really added to the debate, well done.
What relevance has TC being anonymous got, to Mr Hall or anyone. He's always been anonymous.
Talk about scraping the barrel.
It is not always possible to produce a smoking gun when a well planned conspiracy is being exposed.
Personally I believe there is a conspiracy lead by a cabal of international financiers. In my opinion this cabal are responsible for controlling the worlds politicians and money supply.
I have no way of proving my suspicions are true because I do not have 'a smoking gun'. Just as John Hall does not have a smoking gun in relation to the TMBC conspiracy to manipulate environmental data, but that does not mean either of us are wrong however it does mean the conspirators we seek to expose have covered their tracks very well.
Our national essence has been so corrupted we need a full scale civil war to purge the nation in blood.
Cock beck. One man, an air rifle and a full set of military clothing and equipment, waiting for the day I get to show it all off.
If a civil war did kick off I might have to upgrade the air rifle, if we lived in a free country I would have done already.
Anonymous. Your right but I think if we try hard enough we can make the people of this island start to see the big picture. The people who can't see farther than their garden gate are next to useless anyway. Social Darwinism will sort out the chaff.
What kind of air rifle do you have SS?
Four top Met Policemen have gone now to try and escape the wrath of the bent politicians who want their own back on the police and the media for the Cash For Honours inquiry and the MPs expenses scandal.
The politicians, media, police and establishment in general are now an incestuous, greedy bunch of gutless traitors and self-seeking chancers, totally out of touch with reality, common sense, public opinion and THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO THE NATION.
The brainless and the traitors who voted them in are just as bad.
The whole country needs to be purged from its innate apathy, cowardice, ignorance and rot, in blood.
Watkinson & Hall are the new Peters & Lee
TC, you have given John Hall lots of time to justify his position. We the long suffering people who are tortured by traffic congestion through our villages demand a by-pass. Will you give us the opportunity to present our case if we prepare an article?
TC
You have allowed your mate Hall (and Watkinson) to have their say. Now let the good folk of Longdendale to have their say
Hall has no compassion for the people of Longdendale who suffer the effects of traffic each day. Motorists like Watkinson who travels daily but believes it's all the fault of TMBC that people like him and thousands of others want to go about their business in motor vehicles. The people of Londendale deserve to be heard
LONGDENDALE SIEGE COMMITTEE said...Hall has no compassion for the people of Longdendale who suffer the effects of traffic each day.
Your Committe became absent at the Public Inquiry,you submitted no extensive evidence,Mr Flynn your Head of the Committee did not attend
and yes I do care about others like the 47,000 who have far far greater levels of pollution to contend with from 24 lanes of converging traffic not the slow moving singles lane vehicles you have ended up with.
Roy Oldham and local Politicians all refused to back the common sense idea of banning HGV`s on their rat run across the A628,it was said to the Highways Agency and TMBC over 20 plus years,simply try it,it could give you benefits but repeated No NO No resulted why
????.
If your that concerned about putting your case why were you blatantly absent from the Public Inquiry,surely you let your supporters down miserably by keeping away and having no dossiers of evidence submitted.
The facts are:
One lane of slow moving traffic with less than 9,000 people spread over a large rural open countryside area against:
47,000 in the close compact urban location where in excess of 350,000 from 24 lanes converging and creating huge levels of pollution and congestion if you read the HA reports.
You had your chance at the Public Inquiry your TMBC friends
and Highways Agency provided useless evidence costing the public almost £20 million,thats why the Chairman gave you experts 6 attempts aqt correcting the flawed evidence ending up with TMBC and the HA pulling out because it had no answers to offer the Public Inquiry and those are the facts,and your absence in giving evidence or presenting all your evidence to back your claims was also absent.
Now where`s your case ????
This is another case someone wanting 47,000 of us to get thousands more daily vehicles and their pollution stuffed into our area to suit your wishes for a quiet country life where you can listen to the birds and lean on your garden fences,yet FOR SOME
UTTERLY STRANGE REASON SAY NO TO THE THOUSANDS UP THERE WHO WANT AN HGV BAN TRYING.Why have you not campaigned for that ???????????
JH
Either the Anonymous one`s have legged it up to Mottram to kick off again or the Longedale posters are
copying previous Anonymous one`s who don`t live there.
What a farce this has become with few
able to stomach the truth after even putting facts more simply than a 5 year old would need to understand.
JH
I for one have concluded that there is little point conversing with an imbecile who just resorts to posting references to content that doesn't support his argument and insulting those that challenge him.
I think that you will find that the cap fits perfectly on you Hall.
J. Roger
Mr Roger, face the facts, you and your fellow Siege Committee windbags are plain old NIMBYS. You do not care for the rest us or or our countryside. All you want is the congestion problem shifting so it becomes someone elses nightmare. If you don't like it up there in Hollingworth why not move?
The solution is quite simple and it does not involve a new road. The A628 should become a toll road. Cars should be charged 50p, vans £1 and HGV's £10. This would discourage trucks from using this route as a ratrun and they would use the M62 instead.
Now it's, 'The people of Longdendale', as if they all speak with one voice. Pathetic.
Fancy expecting TMBC to accept their large share of the responsibility for the, often self-created, traffic problems in their Borough when it's all the fault of the moving public for driving their cars and...'travelling daily!'.
If people didn't 'go about their business in motor vehicles' there'd be no economy.
What do you suggest they do, walk, or go on horseback.
Tameside Council have built massive numbers of houses in the last few years and shipped hordes of people into the Borough, that brings extra traffic and extra strain on all our local resources.
.22 springer, B2 with custom furniture. Nowt special but its best to learn to shoot with the bare minimum of gadgets. Its also pretty hefty as a club.
Watkinson
Tell Hall about the economy and what HGV bans would do for it. Sorry have you told us what vehicles you drive or have you just resorted to blaming TMBC for everything and insulting everyone apart from Hall
Kevin Watkinson
TMBC have not built any houses in last few years. They are not in the business of building houses. And are you so stupid as to not know that they have targets set by government to ensure provision of houses. Do you not think that attracting new housing is a good thing for the economy. What cave do you live in? Get off your soap box. You really are another Hall.
Mr Watkinson
In order to ensure the flow of traffic through Tameside why don't we build a motorway around Greater Manchester. We could call it the M60. We might have an artery from Denton and through Hyde to ensure traffic flows. It might be heavy at peak times but then a lot of places are. Full of motorists like you. We could call that the M67. There might be some congestion at the junction of the two but then have you seen some other similar junctions? And then to keep traffic flowing through Longdendale we could build a bypass but don't tell Hall. There Mr Watkinson free flowing traffic! And not a speed hump in site.
John Hall is a complete fruit loop
John Hall is a hero. He has the courage to stand up to council and big business bullies for the good of us all.
So many of the people of Tameside sit at home moaning about the assault on our quality of life but do nothing else whereas Mr Hall does not, he takes the fight back to them.
He correctly predicted, using the words of Ghandi that he would face this type of assault by nameless nobodies like you.
Anonymous 1), 'Tell Hall about the economy and what HGV bans would do to it', no, you tell him, and tell us what your views on it are using reasoned argument. The Longdendale bypass is a very complex issue about which I have no particular expertise which is why I haven't commented on it.
Individual car/vehicle ownership/usage are not the subjects of this debate, the behaviour and responsibilities of TMBC re pollution, congestion and traffic flow ARE. No doubt I'm as 'guilty' as virtually everyone else of the crime of using my car. I'm starting to think the reason you're repeatedly trying to change the subject is because you've got nothing to add apart from irrelevant, repetitious and meaningless questions.
I haven't 'blamed TMBC for everything' I criticised them, using reasoned argument, for their excessive use of speed bumps, pinch points, traffic lights etc, which lead to more decelerating and accelerating traffic and consequently more pollution, particularly re diesel emissions and their adverse effect on the heart. I haven't insulted anyone.
Bob the Builder, I think everyone is aware TMBC don't build houses, but allow houses to be built in the Borough. Are YOU so stupid you don't know the Council don't have to slavishly follow government directives, but should also consider, represent and stand up for the rights of existing residents. House building within reasonable limits may benefit the economy but TOO MANY houses means too many people, too much traffic/pollution and too much strain on our resources and facilities. There have been a significant number of major residential developments in the last few years and the population/development line in Tameside will have to be drawn somewhere and TMBC show no sign of knowing when or where.
Anonymous 3), In order to ensure the smooth flow of traffic why don't TMBC do their part to prioritise traffic flow instead of wilfully obstructing it. Why don't they play their part in sorting out the time wasting, pollution creating gridlock at the Junction of the M60/M67, by putting persistent pressure on the government and/or Highways Agency to sort it out.
In Longdendale, no doubt the situation and solution is more complex but the total failure to resolve it after decades of waiting is identical.
Re Tameside Council, judge them on results: Two of the worst bottlenecks in Britain, STILL not sorted.
Tameside Deathhou...sorry hospital, STILL not sorted.
Denton and Droylsden, ninth and tenth in the entire country for the highest percentage of boarded up shops in the high street.
Lots of lovely Council Tax from all those new houses. Nothing to do with it of course.
For the love of god will someone please tell John Hall to use clearly defined paragraphs and sentences when writing long articles.
It should be 'God' with a capital G.
Yes I admit to some spelling mistakes and defined paragraphs,but forwarding up to 30 E.Mails per day which includes friends within Epidemiological Research Units,Universities across the world is somewhat a rush job.
I am called by anonymous posters
every abusive name thinkable simply because I state the truth and give specific facts gained over many years
However such juvenile name calling makes no impression at all, and does not concern me whatsoever because my perpetual stated and prime objective over many years is simply to get Tameside Council to act as Government directed them 12 years ago to reduce and halt
air pollution in the designated AQMA where Pollution targets are being exceeded and increased in locations where people live.
I have never ever made complaints
to anyone anywhere concerning my own families ingesting high pollution,but the real truth which will certainly be scoffed at, ridiculed and scoffed at, and used as ammunition is this.
"The Children,Infants,Babies and Foetus`s have a bloody human right to ingest relatively clean air suited to their breathing needs and not be subjected to such gross negligence by a despot Council".
It may be old fashioned to sincerely care for kids health and futures,and receive further snide comments from Anonymous (I`m all right jack individuals)but that`s me and regardless of those not concerned with Youngsters,Families and the Elderly getting increasingly stuffed full of Toxins
and to the knockers I say "tough",because I have never faltered in my determination to expose environmentally decimated area`s in Tameside.which may not benefit me but could improve thousand of people`s environments,which Tameside Councillors and MP`s DELIBERATELY IGNORE or what are "they doing about it". ???????????????????????????????????
Its time All TMBC Politicians called in "their obvious pack of hounds",and did something positive to address the decimated Environmental problems which exist.
JH
Don't worry, when it's finished Supertram will save Deadsden. Those outdated piles of shit trundling across the main junction every five minutes will create ANOTHER bottleneck for vehicular traffic and make people shun the area even more.
I'm not mad!
Are we really so evil we eat dogs. Make up your own mind.
EVIL! SCUM!
Most interesting words from our Local MP in the House of Commons 19th July 2011 on the debate about school meals.
"8,000 children are currently in receipt of free school meals in Tameside".
Andrew Gwynne: . "Education and the health of our children are hugely important".(apart from the lots of toxins stuffed into MY constituency kids)
"One piece of my work was about people who do important jobs and included short pieces of writing on the importance of bin men, ambulance drivers and nurses".(you forgot politicians)
"Perhaps in a nod to my future role as a shadow Transport Minister",(what !now that`s definitely an insult to Tamesiders)
"My right hon. Friend Ed Balls, whom I had the great privilege of serving as Parliamentary Private Secretary (crawler) when he was Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families,Education and the health of our children are hugely important".(but I swear I will never mention all the Air Pollution which the children get inside them every day in my constituency)
"Anyone who knows me closely (who drew the short straw) knows my love of food"(and definitely when its paid for by my constituents when I am even on Holiday recess from the House of Commons luvly jubbly)
"I agree absolutely. When I was a pupil not at Russell Scott primary school but at Egerton Park community high school (? pardon) in Denton."
"lot of the cooking skills that I have today. I make a superb Victoria sponge cake, thanks to my gran, who was the best baker in the world, and my custard cream biscuits are to die for" (WOW BRILLIANT is that in the Guinness Book of records)
"Mr Dobbin, I shall bring some in after the recess and we can all share them"(who let the Dobbin in no wonder most Politicians are obese)
"Food comes not only from the supermarket but from the ground".(Now thats really world shattering news, absolutely brilliant)
"My children know only too well that eggs come from chickens",(what ages did you say they are) because we have five chickens at home, so we have an abundance of eggs,(all round to your house then) which comes in handy for baking" (and chucking at non Labour people)
"To be fair, I did also mention my Scotch broth, which is wholesome and nutritious; but when we talk about a balanced diet we do not want to be so restrictive that we cannot enjoy a slice of cake now and then".(Is it free cake like on the TV advert).
(Amazing at the revelations that come out in the House of Commons)
He's the one who likes to trumpet how he's strongly against necessary scientific experimentation on animals, but doesn't want to talk about the barbaric, alien and totally unnecessary atrocities of Halal and Kosher slaughter.
The Houses of Commons and Lords are full of timeserving, self-seeking traitors. An urgent clearout is required before Britain disappears permanently.
Just seen an interesting question during the Hacking Scandal debate in Parliament, criticising local newspaper editors meeting with local politicians on the quiet. Didn't something like that happen in Tameside a couple of years ago?
Anonymous 20 July
Yes you are right.We found out and publicised it nationally. Check Page 40 on the link below.
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/communities/doc/810671.doc
I live in Stockport and I'm looking for Statement of Persons Nominated in the last local elections, on the council website.
I can't seem to find it can anyone help.
Thanks.
What is John Hall on about. I can't believe he was educated at all. He can't string a sentence together at all and expects us all to listen to his rants
Hi Kevin Watkinson
Sorry not got back to you. Just in the Middle East on business and would you believe they have traffic lights, roundabouts and even speed humps. Now either they have the same traffic engineers as TMBC or they realise that to stop idiotic motorists like you they have to introduce such measures. Now shall we blame TMBC for the world's traffic systems
Can J Hall tell the readers of TC how Carrillon got a contract to build the Mottram Bypass. And not just a reference to a blog site with a photograph of Roy Oldham with a publicity check fir Schools for Future Programme. And not just a blog site making reference to someone at the inquiry with links to Carrillon. After all there were lots of people at the Inquiry (including me). And if Carrillon were interested in building the bypass why not. But you have come on this site and stated that they had the contract. Yet the bypass never got beyond the Inquiry. So come up FACTS or shut up for good
Dont expect anything from John Hall except abuse, iffy science, innuendo, reference to other peoples opinions purporting to be facts and frequent rants
Anon said
So come up FACTS or shut up for good
No chance of that it will not happen so Tough.
JH
see gwynne has unleashed his anons
again
Bob the Builder, do they have TOO MANY speed bumps, pinch points, traffic signals etc, have they mnassively increased their number in the last few years, increasing pollution, delay, damage to vehicles and delay to emergency vehicles. Give us some of the detail that all your incisive and in depth comments specialise in.
TMBC are responsible for the excessive installation of these obstructions, that's the discussion. You seem to believe they are rsponsible for nothing.
Explain how I'm an 'idiotic motorist', don't forget specifics, detail and reasoned argument.
Mr Watkinson
In order for me to give reasoned arguments I need you tell me what excessive is? You use this and the term 'massively' quite a lot so please tell me the sites and obstructive to which you refer. Specifics please and the we can conduct a debate. Some research should then tell us the reasoning behind the so called obstruction / pinch point eg traffic flow, road safety, junction improvement. It maybe some of these features impede your daily journey but assist others or improve road safety
Mr Hall
You normally come back very quickly with your rants but as yet nothing on the proof around the Carrillion contract. After all as you are always making claims to have stopped the scheme at Inquiry stage how come there was a contract. Surely there is documentation you can refer to where the HA had awarded the contract as you have stated. Are you struggling on this one or does it not demonstrate to you how you constantly make statements that are not true. Please give us evidence of a contract having been awarded for the construction of the Mottram bypass
I will not answer to Anonymous posters who repeatedly hide behind their real identities.
Its been one way traffic for long enough,Anons proving nothing,insulting,snide remarks added.
Its somewhat like offering evidence in a public inquiry with the questioner sat with a hood on speaking in a false voice.
What a bloody cheek you have.
Here`s a clue to shut you up:
ByPass costs from FOI response
Highways Agency £83,623 August 2004-2006 Feb 2006-2007 £97,960.
Feb 2007-June 2007 £62,220.
June 2007-Oct 2007 £49,777.
Carillion PLC inc Hyder Consultants
Feb 2006-2007 £2,414,050
Carillion PLC inc Hyder Consultants
Feb 2007-June 2007 ????????????
YOU FIND THAT OUT,I KNOW IT
Carillion PLC Hyder Consultants
June 2007-Oct 2007 ??????????
YOU FIND THAT OUT AS WELL,I KNOW IT
Why were Carillion shelling out vast sums of money on the Official By Pass Costs ?????????????
You again find that out Anonymous
your not sat filling you nut with Facts from others because you don`t have the ability,and never will have.
Now excuse me,no more knowledge given free to a hooded,no real voice,imposter acting as a mouthpiece.
Don`t come on here if YOU don`t have any facts,find another site,remain anonymous and fill your nut further from more posters who give facts.
Do not waste my time again as an Anonymous seeker of my detailed information,you will not waste my time again.
You must certainly need a secret identity whether its for TMBC,Local MP or another Labourite set up.
JH
Longdendale Siege Committee, I must state here and now that I am, and always have been opposed to the proposed bypass. However in the interests of fairness you are most welcome to put forward an argument as to why you feel a bypass is necessary. If you send me an article including photos/videos I will post them so the topic can be debated.
Mr Hall
You seem to forget that TC is anonymous, although I'm sure you know his identity. Once rattled with facts you resort to your usual offensive rants. You are so predictable. Once you start to lose an argument you get aggressive and offensive and claim everyone who chides to be anon (just like TC) are connected to the labour party or TMBC rather than normal individuals who are just questioning your facts and motives
Anonymous said
Once rattled with facts you resort to your usual offensive rants.
Your just a very stupid time waster with no facts to debate,but wait for the next submission which should shut you up along with the other Anons.
Andrew Gwynne and his sycophantic Councillors will also enjoy the next round of exposures.
JH
'Excessive' is the number of speed bumps, pinch points, extra traffic lights currently in situ, or one hundredth of that number. Twenty years ago there were none. the extant traffic lights were in place for sound reasons, ie. to regulate the flow at certain junctions, not the current traffic 'calming' related irrationality. Like most parts of Britain we had amongst the safest roads in the world as British drivers are generally sensible and considerate.
There is no 'reasoning' behind speed bumps etc, simply the politically based imposition of an anti-car and anti-speed mania prevalent in the corridors of power. The Road Research Laboratory's own figures revealed that 87% of all accidents are caused by pedestrians stepping into the roadway. That's the source, and if the authorities wanted to significantly reduce road casualties, like all problems, they'd address the source with a large scale, pedestrian focused safety campaign.
According to the Department of Transport only 5% of accidents where the driver was at fault are speed related, but the wholesale demonisation of speed, and indeed the car in general, was implemented alongside the gigantic cash cow that is the speed camera. Appropriate speed is what matters, any sensible driver knows this, so do the Police whose relatioship with the general public has been significantly worsened by the criminalising of law abiding people for the 'offence' of exceeding the speed limit by a few miles per hour.
The concept of obstructing the road to make it safer is utterly misconceived, not counting the delay to emergency services and consequent deaths and injuries caused - see earlier postings for specific references.
I've repeatedly supplied sources, references, and constructed reasoned arguments based upon THEM, common sense and long experience as a professional driver. You've supplied none, simply made meaningless, repetitious statements.
TC's anonymous, so what, he/she/it/they always has/have been. Maybe it's several different people or they're hideously deformed, or a trainspotter or something. It's got no relevance to Mr Hall's comments as the person/persons who set this blog up are unknown to everyone. But he/she/whatever should tell us why they're against the bypass.
Watkinson
I ask you again to name the pinch points you refer to so we can understand the reason for their introduction or are you to revert to the same tactics as J Hall. Let's knock the establishment regardless. I am not on this blog to support TMBC but I repeat that the so called problems you refer to don't cause me a problem. I don't need therefore to put forward any reasoned debate but it is you that talks about 'excessive' obstructions causing 'massively' increased pollution. Put up or shut up
JH
Resorting to insults again. I think you are defeated on this one so bring on the next debate although the Longdendale Siege Committee are before you
Bob the Builder, I've named the pinch points, speed bumps I refer to - all of them. There's no 'reason' for any of them, twenty years ago they didn't exist and our roads were amongst the safest in the world.
the reason you link me with J.Hall is to try and conceal that you've got nothing to add to this debate.
The 'problems' I refer to don't cause you a problem, so?
It's goog you don't think you 'don't need to put forward a reasoned debate' because as you've repeatedly proved you aren' capable of it, or even beginning to respond to any of my specific points.
I've repeatedly explained my references to 'excessive' obstructions, i.e. ANY artificially created obstrucctions that increase delay, pollution etc that weren't placed there for a sound reason, as opposed to politically motivated, irrational anti-car, anti-speed, revenue generating purposes.
Millions of cars accelerating, decelerating and waiting unnecessarily cause a massive and unnecessary increase in dangerous emissions.
Someone tell shit for brains cars slowing down, stopped or speeding up use more fuel than cruising ones. for fuck's sake.
Watkinson
So they are all unnecessary and it is I with no reasoned debate. So 20 years ago our roads were the safest?? If you had done your research instead of making sweeping statements you would find that fatalities on Tameside roads were in double figures in the early 90's. You can clearly show a reduction of road fatalities linked to road improvements so that if you ask TMBC the question they will tell you that fatalities have reduced to just 4 or 5. That means that road obstructions as you call them are saving around 10 lives a year. One of safest records in Greater Manchester. As I have previously stated it is not my role to defend but you appear to make rash statements without evidence, just like Hall. If you want to debate the merits of those reduced fatalities against the 'potential' harmful effects of impeding speeds then fine. But the figures on reduced road fatalities are very clear. Yours is just a theory that can't be quantified.
I said British roads were amongst the safest in the world prior to the introduction of speed bumps, cameras, pinch points etc. You haven't answered any of my specific points re pedestrians being responsible for nearly nine out of ten of all accidents, according to the Road Research Laboratory, and therefore the most efficient way to reduce road casualties is to focus on the cause, i.e pedestrians, as opposed to the installation of artificially created obstructions that delay ALL traffic, and increase pollution. Refer to my previous sourced posts on the amount of emergency cases dying in ambulances because of speed bumps alone. 500 cardiac cases per year, just cardiac cases in London.
Vague assertions about a few less deaths in Tameside, unsourced and unproven, and the FACT is ambulances in Tameside will be constantly held up by TMBC's pro congestion policies and irrational obsession with speed and 'calming', and when seconds count people will die as a result. That's why the concept of obstructing the road to make it safer is totally misconceived.
I HAVE been debating the misconception of impeding normal, appropriate speed, and have sourced and referenced such in my previous posts. You saying a few people may have been saved is the 'best' you have come up with in the entire debate. Demonstrate how the supposed reductions are directly linked to these obstructions. Vastly improved braking systems, lighter vehicles, smoothed off front ends specifically designed to improve passenger safety have all been implemented by manufacturers over that period, they could just as well explain the reduction in casualties.
By your argument EVERY road should have a speed bump every few yards so there'd be zero chance of anything happening, the same as if the private car was banned in urban areas. There is more to it than quoting casualty figures however, a balanced judgement has to be made, and there are better ways to ensure road safety than the current fad for putting large raised blocks of tarmac in the middle of the road that, on balance, do far more harm than good.
My brother-in-law's worked for Kwik Fit since 1978, cracked alloys, suspension damage and all the rst went throught the roof after speed bumps were brought in. Why should drivers have to put up with going over hundreds and hundreds of the things all the time largely because of a few pedestrians too ignorant to look properly getting hit by cars.
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